Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've always built my own cages, but i'm thinking of switching to bought cages. The main reasons are looks and cleanability. Oviously i won't be able to get them all at once, but i would like to go with one basic type. I have looked at animal plastics, monster, boaphile, vision, neos, and reptile basic. Any i've missed? Anybody want to tell me their good or bad experiences with any of these. Most will be used for hots. The room is deadbolted so the cages don't need locks. Thanks

I built my own cages for years before finally buying a pair of vision 662 for my two burmese pythons. I LOVED them! Compared to the wooden cages I had they were so much easier to clean, easier to move around (in the summertime I often carried the whole cage outside and gave it a good cleaning and rinse with the garden hose) as one of vision's largest models it only weighs about 90 lbs. Their stackability was nice too.

For me the best part was the ease of cleaning and being lightweight.

The only thing I would say is after six years, some of the rivets on the back vents rusted and fell out. That's really about it though.

Terry

I have based my cage choices on the snakes I keep in them. I keep my largest snakes, Chinese Beauties, in cages with sliding glass or acrylic doors. The reason is that I can open the doors just a little to spot clean, change the water, feed, etc., without the snakes leaping out of the cage - which is what I fear would happen with drop down style doors. I don't want a snake falling six or seven feet to the floor, from a cage stack. I have Vision, Animal Plastics and Rich Beasley cages.

The Visions are nice and roomy, and have a smoothe, easy to clean surface, but also have some oddities like a sort of lip around the door which is sort of difficult to clean around - and which snakes can hide in (might be a consideration for keeping hots). One of the best things about Visions is that they are pre-assembled.

The Animal Plastics cages are the nicest, most professional looking cages I have IMHO - and are a very good product. The type of PVC they are made of is not as easy to clean as other types of plastic, though - although with enough soap, bleach, and scrubbing they will come clean. You have to assemble AP cages, but they are very precisely cut, and easy to put together.

Rich Beasley sells some very affordable cage kits, which are very similar material to what Animal plastics uses. The drawbacks to the cage kits are cosmetic, and they look like DIY cages: Everything is straight cut, so the panels fit together butt-jointed, as opposed to dadoed like AP cages. The panels are not pre-drilled, and you have to supply the screws, and sealant. Also, the door track is tan, which does not match either the white or black cage material. However, the finished product seems sturdy enough, and is comparable to AP cages in weight, and does the job at much less cost than AP.

There are some cages on the market that I would really like to try, but due to the fact that they don't make sliding door cages, I won't be buying any. The Pro-Line cages made of HDPE by Constrictors Northwest look like they are very easy to clean, are supposedly about as strong a cage as you can get, and I like the fact that light shines through them. If only they made sliding door cages...

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Toby brings up a good point. The lip on the visions would definitely cause me to think twice about using them for hots. I wouldn't rule them out, just understand the possibility of a snake being under or on top of this lip away from view. I also agree sliding glass is better than hinges in order to limit the amount of space you open for simple tasks like feeding, watering and spot-cleaning.

Terry

>>Toby brings up a good point. The lip on the visions would definitely cause me to think twice about using them for hots. I wouldn't rule them out, just understand the possibility of a snake being under or on top of this lip away from view. I also agree sliding glass is better than hinges in order to limit the amount of space you open for simple tasks like feeding, watering and spot-cleaning.
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>>Terry

Yeah, my Beauty Snakes love that lip - climbing and hiding opportunities at the same time.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

The easiest-access, know-where-the-snake-is-before-you-put-your-hand-in cage is the slant-front Neodesha. For that, can't beat it.

Does the new Neodesha company sell the metal racks for these? If so, that is one clean setup. I had that many moons ago and I wish I had it now.

Visions are great but the lip around the door track is a favorite hide for snakes. I had a rescued Crotalus ruber in the model 211, and after I had him in there, I realized I couldn't change the water or clean the cage when the snake was resting in the lip (I had no idea where his head was). Lesson learned.

Truly, any of the others will work for you. I have Boaphile - great cages. I've seen AP - great cages. The NW Constrictors cages look fantastic too. I have some Repti-Racks cages - also great cages. I really like the material Repti-Racks uses.

If you need small cages (like 1ft x 2ft) check out herpcages.com and see if he is still making those. Great little cages.
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Mark

but i would like to go with one basic type. I have looked at animal plastics, monster, boaphile, vision, neos, and reptile basic. Any i've missed? Anybody want to tell me their good or bad experiences with any of these. Most will be used for hots. The room is deadbolted so the cages don't need locks. Thanks

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I don't like vision for hots--that lip in the front is nasty. Too easy for them to hide in. Also, their larger cages seem to bow. For non venomous, the smaller (3 foot and shorter) models are great snake cages though. Lots of floor space, easy to clean, etc.

I like Animal Plastics more, at least so far, but they have an ungodly long lead time right now. Apart from one minor thing on a rack (working with them to resolve it), their stuff's been top notch for me so far. Also affordable, particularly thier larger cages. 6' and over visions cost a freaking arm and a leg, but APs are affordable.

A lot of people like Neos, but I don't like the single piece front...I prefer two panels to one, at least in anything bigger than 2' or so.
Never used Reptile Basics or boaphiles. Can't comment on them. Same with Monster.

A peice of styrofoam or similar material set into the lip remedies the shelf problem above the glass easily. Then it's a win/win. Simple mod!

The 4' neos are 2 piece glass. Thats kind of what i'm leaning toward. They do make the stands for them but i don't like that kind of look. It reminds me of cages on metal shelves. That's the biggest drawback for the neos. Since they aren't stackable i would probably build a false wall type thing that they would recess into. It's a lot of work, but i love my snakes. If i go with just about anything else i can stack them. Does anyone know the best way to heat them? I use RHPs right now, but i don't know if they would work on a sloped top. Anyone know anything about boamaster or constrictor northwest cages? I'm trying to check on every kind i can before i buy since it will end up being 20 cages (not all at once) and it will look very hodgepodge if they are 20 different types.

Neos are heated easily with Flexwatt (the 11-inch-wide stuff for the bigger cages) or Ultratherm or other mylar-coated heaters. You can use Velcro or tape. I like Velcro - holds better than tape, removable heater.

As far as the metal racks, they rock. On casters, strong but not as heavy as wood, and you have complete access to the heaters underneath each cage for taping on a controller probe, etc. And you can remove one cage without affecting the others. That last statement is a good one.
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Mark

I've used a fair share of home made crap over the years and I've gathered quite the list of things that do and don't work. I'm still working the master plan.

Needless to say I was in a bad position a few years back and had to replace everything for easy to use worry free caging. That resulted in a 5 stack of AP T10's (that didn't fit my space), and an ARS rack.

Both were excellent products but both have a few things I'd change.

Like Mark said your last statement is important I'm a huge proponent of uniform look. I took a leap and thankfully was very satisfied.

Amongst the most important things on my list is the one thing you have leaned away from. The Neo rack... I too years back thought this was the dumbest idea ever, the look, the wasted space, I wasn't even a fan of the slant front. I can tell you I was wrong!

I may not find a need for slanted front caging but if it does nothing else it lets more light in. It also aids in viewing the bottom cages and gives you a quick snap shot of where the animal is. The rack however is one of the greatest ideas I never thought of or thought would be great.

Just think you have 5 cages stacked on a pedestal and the snake 2nd from the bottom makes a disaster, etc. The cage needs a good cleaning, and I mean good cleaning. For me this means overhauling the AP cage disassemble bleach scrubbing potentially replacing panels whatever. If not just for the sake you can haul the cage outside and pressure wash it. Without the rack those cages on top need to move. And that my friend is no easy task.

The rack saves you from the trouble, any one cage can be simple replaced, removed whatever. That is by far the best idea I've yet to implement.

I can assure aside from some of these other ideas, a rack allowing the removal of one cage is high on my list.

Cheers
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Check out newreptilecages.com. A variety of standard and custom cages out of melamine and furniture grade plywood. Many satiaified customers.

Nick
C.B. Boids
Snake and Lizard cages

Having had a lot of them there are some drawbacks.

Plastic is rigid and can crack.

A 4' cage has NOWHERE near the floor space as a comparable Vision.If I remember right the interior usable space is only 18" and they arent really a usable 48" the interior is something like 45" or 46".

The glass is heavy and more unweildy to remove and clean than a Vision.

Heat pads and sometimes urates can discolor.

Full spectrum lighting makes the plastic brown and a bit brittle.

The new ones don't seem to yet be able to be gotten with light vents and air vents like the old makers.

The slant front is sometimes an intrusuion to an animal that can sit back further from the glass front like a Vision or Boaphile etc.

I have found the Visions to be MUCH more rugged.And take less space to store when not in use.You could throw them down your cellar steps and they'd be fine.

The locking for the Visions is more secure. The Neos have a pin and as you get the larger cages the glass is a bit heavy to slide. I find the Visions much easier in that regard.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I agree with the uniformity too. Rather than a hodge podge collection of different cages.
Like Big hurt said, I'm looking into this soon fro ease of maintenance.

But for display I find the Visions very nice. You can use the light shroud as an accent light for an area of the cage while useing a full spectrum to evenly light the overall cage.You can use warm white CFLs too to negate the heat impact too.

Great pics what type snake is that its stunning?

Wow they are nice certainly much nicer than the Arizonas I have seen for sale in area pet store.

Thanks

Really? I have thought them to be mostly pretty typical from the ones I've seen at shows around me. Thanks. If your looking for a gentle but colorful small to med. King they are high on the list. They have good appetites but I've never had any do the Kingsnake "chew". They also don't seem to be very prone to going after cage mates for food like larger Common Kings sometimes seem to. Can't say enough nice about them. Generic or locality. I think they are all pretty neat to have around. In my experience they seem to "display" well in a nice setup. kind of like a dry aquarium enjoyment thing. Even if you were ever accidentally bitten, compared to other Kings it's kind of a joke.

I was under the impression that stubborn feeders and very skittish always hid?

By medium what do you mean more or less 4 feet ?

You bought yours at show?

One place sells them in area unsexed and not nearly as pretty as yours.

Thanks

>I was under the impression that stubborn feeders and very skittish always hid?<

There are many times of the year mine aren't out much but other times of the year it's a regular thing to see them out. Plus if you keep more than one or two to a cage I find it increases my chances of seeing somebody out.

I would suggest checking the classifieds for an adult to start off. Resposible hobbyists are generally pretty good about sending you pics and I find the price of an adult is well worth it for the enjoyment and stress reduction of getting a good established feeder to start off with. Use caution on initially putting them together like any other stuff you keep.

Some are calmer than others and regular gentle handling makes the ones in the middle even nicer to handle.

Adult size is 3' give or take. I have a few closer to 4'

I've gotten mine at shows and private breeders looking to trim their numbers down for other projects.

>One place sells them in area unsexed and not nearly as pretty as yours.<

Thanks, but most of mine I would say are middle of the road with a few nicer.

Take your time looking on the classifieds, you'll find lots of nice possibilities if your patient.

Even folks that don't like snakes are usually impressed with the colors and gentleness of my Pyros when they visit.

Good luck.

Bob.

One place sells them in area unsexed and not nearly as pretty as yours.

Thanks, but most of mine I would say are middle of the road with a few nicer.

Bob, I wonder if she's mostly seeing L. p. knoblochi in her area? It seems most people don't like them quite as much the L. p. pyromelana. Combined with that is that there are an awful lot of "knobs" out there that just aren't that sharp. Maybe multi-generation generics, I don't know. Just a thought. I'd have to go back and look but I think all the pictures you posted were L. p. pyromelana?
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Currently keeping:

3.5.5 Gonyosoma oxycephalum (Javan, mixed colors)
0.0.3 Rhynchophis boulengeri
0.4 Lampropeltis triangulum multistriata
0.0.2 Rhamphiophis rubropunctatus
2.1.2 Morelia viridis
1.0 Morelia clastolepis
1.1 Coelognathus flavolineatus
1.1 Pituophis catenifer pumilus
0.1 Charina bottae
1.1 Lichanura trivirgata

could be Chris. Good point.

Yes Mine are all Pyromelana.

Still pondering the Bigger ARS rack.

From the look of your "Currently" list I think your keeping too few snakes these days Chris LOL!

Actually Bob the collection has grown a bit more. I updated my signature for your benefit, LOL.

Honestly it's getting out of hand and I still want to pair up both localities of Pale Milk I have as well as one of the two localities of Rubber Boa I have. I also have a mate for my Moluccan Python on hold.

To make matters worse, my shop is now gone due to an ATV I bought to plow my driveway. So it's starting to look like I need to make the snake room smaller, get rid of the table saw, or both. As a reminder, my snake room is the back of my third garage stall. I think I've mentioned that before.

I need to come up with some sort of solution.

Hopefully the signature updates show up. Only additions were another Red Beak and a pair of Rubber Boas.
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Currently keeping:

3.5.5 Gonyosoma oxycephalum (Javan, mixed colors)
0.0.3 Rhynchophis boulengeri
0.4 Lampropeltis triangulum multistriata
0.0.3 Rhamphiophis rubropunctatus
2.1.2 Morelia viridis
1.0 Morelia clastolepis
1.1 Coelognathus flavolineatus
1.1 Pituophis catenifer pumilus
1.2 Charina bottae
1.1 Lichanura trivirgata

"knoblochi"

That was it we dropped by pet store tonight and those are what they listed as "Arizona mt knobs" .

They arent nearly as nice as these .

I'm not surprised. The generic or pet trade "knobs" just really are not all that nice.

If you're interested in these just be patient as there are often good deals on very nice looking. L. p. pyromelana, both locality and generics. It does seem like locality are going up in price or at least holding price compared to generics.

Bob can fill you in on that more.

Thanks yes I am interested. The reason I first came to cage forum was looking at cages as I now house my king in a 55 gallon tank and was looking at bit wider cages.

My 30 gallon tank is empty now and wanted something nice looking that would not outgrow it but not sure if an Arizona can live comfortably its whole life in a 30 gallon .

Researching them. The knobs aren't 1/10 as pretty .

Thread was a little far down.

Just my opinion, but I think a 30 gallon would be fine for an adult Pyromelana. Also I saw a few interesting ones in the classifieds that might be worth checking out (don't know any of the sellers)

There are others here that probably have more experience with them than I do, theres also a lot of Pyro fans on the Kingsnake Forum with TONS of experience.

Good luck. and take your time. it will be well worth it and there are no real shortages of them if your willing to be choosy (think you should be)

Bob.

thanks and worse case would go bigger tank as probably will go bigger with my king (animal plastics) and would do same if by some reason 30 was to small .

Very pretty Arizona. I find them stunning and those are what I am going with.

I am asking around if local reptile show but if not will go with classifieds and going thee now to look. The weather here is 70s during day so nice now but the summer 100 during the day even if over night is to dangerous.

What temps do you keep your Arizonas in day/night ? I use AC (72 degrrees whem home 76 when not) My king has extra heat and hot side.

Any difference between M/F as far as size-tempermeant?

Thanks

I keep mine in a cellar that is 68 in winter 70's in summer. Standard uths etc. I have never noticed a size difference or temprament difference.

Thanks. Just some Arizona Mountain Kings. Very easy going gentle animals.

Generic Pyro

Patagonia Mtn. Local

Wow those are nice .

Thanks, The Patagonia female on the last two pics is my prettiest.

Tough call. If I were to keep venomous again I don't know that there would be a cage out there that I'd feel 100% comfortable with. I always built my own venomous caging, didn't trust anyone else to do it. But it's species specific. Obviously there are different concerns for housing an egg laying mamba vs. some viper species that bears super tiny live young.

If cleaing is one of your top concerns I would limit your search to those cages made from some sort of polyethylene or polypropylene.

If you want to stick with the DIY route to get exactly what you want you can always order your own HDPE. Some guy here in my town got sheets of black 1/2" HDPE shipped for $200 each. He probably would have saved money if he had the material pre-cut to size which would have saved on freight charges.

1/2" HDPE is quite a bit heavier and noticably more flexible than most 1/2" PVC products used by various cage manufacturers. If you need cages larger than the typical 4x2 footprint you would have to design around the flexibility.

The Pro-Line cages over at Constrictors Northwest look ineresting in that regard.

Or you can do like these guys did (Jim Gaspar?) So you don't have to unstack everything like was mentioned.

Or stack on a platform 18" like this where you don't have to kneel on the ground (tough as you get older) I use an office chair on wheels like a Doc in an office does to comfortably work/clean/observe lower level cages.

*Some pics not my own