Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There have been all sorts of discussions on here and other forums of the benefits/costs of powerfeeding snakes. I define "powerfeeding" as deliberately feeding snakes more than "normal" to get them up to breeding size as fast as possible. This is normally done be feeding small meals 2-3 times per week (or more!).

One side affect associated with this sort of feeding is pinheadedness. Adult snakes often have smaller heads than snakes of similar size but more natural feeding regimens.

A study that just came out in the Journal of Experimental Biology by Aubret and Shine gives an explanation to why this may happen.

jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/213/5/iii

Basically they found that if they fed snakes small meals, the snakes appeared to "lose" the ability to eat larger meals as they grew. Snakes forced to eat larger meals maintained this ability. It sounds a bit Lamarckian at first, but what they are saying is that the ability to ingest larger meals can be lost to some degree if a snake isn't challenged to do so during growth.

So powerfeeding fuzzies to a snake 5 times a week does make it grow faster, but may cause it to lose some of its "flexibility" in the skull and result in a smaller head.

Interesting stuff.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

is that in and of itself a health concern? I've seen the powerfeeding debate for boids, but not for colubrids. Generally, my feeling is if a snake is getting fat you're feeding it too much. If not, you're good...

I tend to feed smaller meals for a variety of reasons. I don' like to buy feeders very often--I buy a huge amount a few times a year...so I shoot small, figuring I can feed several small meals but I can't stuff a large rat down a baby python, ya know? That and they seem to digest easier. Even if the weight per feeding's the same--1 50 gram mouse versus 2 25 gram mice.

That's very interesting!

I'm glad you mentioned powerfeeding. I'm just getting back into herps after not having them for years, and I've been wondering about the whole "powerfeeding" thing. So, it's not considered powerfeeding unless you feed several times per week? How about every 5 days? Are there any charts that let you know how quickly young snakes of various species *should* be growing? These are the sorts of things I ponder when I don't have enough to keep me busy!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (TBA)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
2.6 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I have met some herp folks that feed future breeders every three days, and with largest prey size possible to get hatchlings to breeding size by at least 18 months. In nature, it probably takes females until their third, maybe fourth year of life to achieve the size and mass needed to successfully produce eggs due to the strain. Thats why its usually stated maturity is a matter of size, not age. I had an 07 male breed last year, which meant he went into brumation at 18 months of age, and bred before he was a full two years of age. Not uncommon for males. However, I have seen some powerfed colubrids that looked atrocious, huge, bloated, and just like overstuffed sausages. Some breeders feel their animals need to pull their weight as soon as possible and produce babies. They feel non producing snakes just take up food and space with no return. Snakes can suffer the effects of obesity just like humans with fatty liver and organ deposits that can jeopardize their long term health. They may produce at an earlier age, but may also die at an earlier age.

I'm feeding every 3-5 days for babies, for the first few months, (unless in shed)...and my snakes are *not* fat. They're string beans. You can over feed, and more commonly (I think) you can deny your snakes access to warm enough temps to enable fast disgestion.

I feed my hatchlings and juvies a bit more than adults. However, once established, mine get fed every seven days. Females fresh out of brumation get feed every four days to gain weight and prep for the breeding season. The animals I am referring to looked like freaks IMO. Just huge and bloated looking. You could easily tell these were not just big snakes, but FAT snakes. Way too much bodyfat on them. I give my snakes a warm spot of 83-86 and the cool end is room temp between 70-75 degrees. I am breeding 07 female corns for the first time this year. I have one female Okeetee corn that is an 08 that MAY go this year, but not pushing her to make it. If I have to wait another year, so be it.

Way too much bodyfat on them. I give my snakes a warm spot of 83-86 and the cool end is room temp between 70-75 degrees. /end quote

See, my warm ends are in the high 80s-low 90s, with cool ends of room temp. For a day or two after they eat, they're on the warm end, then back to the middle or cool end. They eat, and usually poop within 48 hours. These're kings and african house snakes mostly. The retics go a bit slower--maybe pooping every week or so, despite sightly higher warm end temps.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

Oh, and I don't mean to imply that your method is bad, just that you can deviate from without harming the snakes. I think a lot of people get horrified when they something that's different than what they do, regardless of what results it produces. There's multiple paths to success with reptiles, which is one thing I love about the hobby.

The problem, I think, occurs when people feed more than the snake can digest and process...since there are several factors (genetics, temps, species, etc) you kind of have to figure out how to make them interact differently. Your temps are fine for lower feeding frequencies, and will not harm or hamper your critters in any way. But at those temps, if you feed 'em like I do, yeah, that'd be bad.

But even with that...some individuals within a species go differently than others. Out of my 6 florida kings, I've got a continumn (sp?) of growth rates...even with pretty much identical care. Oddly enough, my best eater's the slowest grower...I'd swear he had a tapeworm if A: He wasn't CB, and B: I hadn't checked anyway...he eats 50% or so of his body weight weekly, poops regularly, but is growing slow. I am baffled. Really baffled. His sister eats about 30-40% of her body weight weekly and is growing like a weed. Both are slender, well proportioned snakes...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

Varanid, I think your temps are fine too LOL!! My corns and kings are doing fine, growing well, breeding when i feel they should. I dont have any eastern L. getula, but the eastern clan kings like the florida, easterns, and florida/eastern integrades appear to be insatiable mouse and rat destroyers from what I have been reading LOL!!

>>Oh, and I don't mean to imply that your method is bad, just that you can deviate from without harming the snakes. I think a lot of people get horrified when they something that's different than what they do, regardless of what results it produces. There's multiple paths to success with reptiles, which is one thing I love about the hobby.
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>>The problem, I think, occurs when people feed more than the snake can digest and process...since there are several factors (genetics, temps, species, etc) you kind of have to figure out how to make them interact differently. Your temps are fine for lower feeding frequencies, and will not harm or hamper your critters in any way. But at those temps, if you feed 'em like I do, yeah, that'd be bad.
>>
>>But even with that...some individuals within a species go differently than others. Out of my 6 florida kings, I've got a continumn (sp?) of growth rates...even with pretty much identical care. Oddly enough, my best eater's the slowest grower...I'd swear he had a tapeworm if A: He wasn't CB, and B: I hadn't checked anyway...he eats 50% or so of his body weight weekly, poops regularly, but is growing slow. I am baffled. Really baffled. His sister eats about 30-40% of her body weight weekly and is growing like a weed. Both are slender, well proportioned snakes...
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>>We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
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Mark

You can over feed, and more commonly (I think) you can deny your snakes access to warm enough temps to enable fast disgestion.

You have to remember that keeping your snakes warm speeds up their digestion, and their heart rate, and their respiration, etc.

If you compare species across the vertebrate realm, you see that those species with higher metabolism (heart rate, respiration) tend to live shorter lives than those species with lower metabolism.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Oh -- and no, I don't think it sounds Lamarckian at all. It's only Lamarckian if the pinheaded snake's OFFSPRING were also pinheaded.

This just sounds like another example of the general "use it or lose it" principle. If you don't force the young snake to use its elasticity, then it doesn't develop that capacity while it grows. Very interesting paper!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (TBA)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
2.6 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Oh -- and no, I don't think it sounds Lamarckian at all. It's only Lamarckian if the pinheaded snake's OFFSPRING were also pinheaded.

Sure, just the overall sound of "your head becomes smaller if you don't stretch it" has a Lamarckian feel, but it isn't implying it is heritable (other than the plasticity being heritable).
Probably not the best word to have chosen.

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

No prollem. It's very interesting info!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (TBA)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
2.6 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters