Reptile & Amphibian Forums

KEEP IT QUIET!

I hope the lesson of recent events has not been lost on anyone in the community. Once problems of any kind involving our herps make it into the media, our prospects for continuing to enjoy our hobby go down the toilet. So we must, at all costs, prevent this from happening.

How? Some ideas I've picked up from owning a retail pet business (and dealing with local and state governmental authorities) for many years:

Yes, fight anti-herp regulations/legislation-but obey all regs which ARE on the books. Every time someone's collection is confiscated, or someone's pet or child is injured (or worse) by their pet snake, that's one more free donation to HSUS. If an ordinance is passed in your town that makes your reptiles illegal, then move out of town, or get rid of them. Before you move, thoroughly check the ordinances and all state and local laws. If registration is required, or pit tags, or notification of emergency authorities-just do it, please.

Even if herps are legal where you live, don't do anything that will change that happy circumstance. Make SURE your enclosures are escape-proof, then make sure the room in which they are housed is ALSO escape-proof! If small children and large, potentially dangerous reptiles are to share the same building, then secure locks on both the cages and the room are more than a good idea ( I personally would go a step further, and not even keep potentially dangerous reptiles in the same household as young children, but I realize not all would agree).

Don't miss any opportunity to educate the public about the good side of reptiles and our hobby. Give talks, write guest articles and editorials, become involved at the local nature center. The only sure remedy for ignorance is education.

However, NEVER take your 9 ft boa on a walk through the local park. This single show-off impulse is probably responsible for more anti-herp ordinances than any other. Believe me, the local townspeople do NOT want to marvel at your awesome pet! In fact, they will probably go to almost any lengths to keep you from doing it again... including bringing it up at the next City Council meeting.

If all precautions fail, and there IS an incident involving your reptiles, cooperate fully and QUIETLY with authorities. A good lawyer will do you a LOT more good than an appeal to the public through the media.

Finally, it scarcely needs be said that no pet reptile should ever be released into the wild, anywhere-but I guess i just said it again . It bears repeating.

I believe that if we all had followed these rules over the last two decades, our situation now would be much improved.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

One thing I might add here if I may, is if you are going to look up any ordinances for your city or area, is do NOT make inquires about the ordinances to the public officials of that area. This is because they will often either not know and end up (in many cases) giving you false information about what is or isn't legal, or it will simply bring to their attention the fact that there are people that may be keeping reptiles or "dangerous wild animals" in their area, and therefore spur them on to create an ordinance against them if there isn't one already. I have heard of ordinances in several towns here in Wisconsin that have come about that very way.

Instead I would suggest either checking to see if your town/area is listed in the Law database on here or looking them up yourself. Many city websites now have their ordinances available on their websites or Municode, usually under ones designated for Pets and Animals.

While I agree with you both 100%, it shouldn't be this way. We should have the same rights afforded to other pet owners. If I believe my pet to be safe, I should be able to do as I please with it. If an accident happens, just like with any other pet, the animal is removed/euthanized, and the owner dealt with accordingly. End of story. And, it REALLY bothers me that, despite being perfectly legal, I have to try to keep my hobby on the "DL" for fear that one uneducated neighbor, and a few ignorant politicians, may try to take my hobby away. If people just learned to mind there own busines, and to educate themselves before jumping to conclusions, this country would be a far better place. I don't call the police about the two psyco dogs that live behind me, despite the fact that they act like they want to rip me to shreds if they could just get over the fence. I've been bitten by many strange dogs, and it never bothered me a bit. I'll usually roughhouse a little with them, and then go about my day. I don't complain to the city council about the fact that I have to clean up dog poo in my yard everyweek, despite not owning a dog. Is it to much to ask to be given the same courtesy in return? What ever happened to our unalienble right to life, liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS? Sorry for the rant, but this is something that has bothered me for a while. This pertains to a range of issues, not just pets.

Brian

I say Amen to all these posts. Be safe, educate, respect others and also stand your ground. Please note, I live in one of the epicenters of HSUS and PETAs donor base but I refuse to stop keeping constrictors. I just keep it as quiet as possible and if an ordinance is passed here, I will proudly move.

I agree that we shouldn't have to keep our hobby on the "DL" but we also don't need to have it out in the general public's face. Unless you are doing some type of educational outreach there is NO REASON TO EVER TAKE YOUR HERPS OUT IN PUBLIC!!!! This is one of my greatest pet peeves everytime i see some one walking down the street with a snake or lizard I just want to pull over and slap the stupid right out of them. Every day on my way home from work there is a kid with his ball python out walking up and down the street I once saw a guy in a grocery store with a 12 foot burm curled up in the grocery cart this is just stupid. We all like herps most people don't some to an extreme I'm willing to bet that the majority of local laws against ownership steamed from someone seeing somebodys pet snake out in public. Your snake dosen't enjoy going for a walk or a ride in the car. IF YOU DO THIS YOU ARE AN IDIOT STOP IT NOW BEFORE YOU RUIN THIS HOBBY FOR ALL OF US.
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"We don't inherate the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children"

Yeah I guess I was a little over harsh. Perhaps by never i should have said 90% of the time it is a bad idea to take them out in public. It does depend on what 'public" you are taking them out around but still the majority of the time i still say its a bad idea.
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"We don't inherate the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children"

>>I agree there are many stupid examples of reptiles in public, such as the 12-foot Burm in the shopping cart you cited (what the heck was that guy thinking!?). However, going with "never" (even for a kid's *small* pet snake or lizard) is partly what has caused this crisis. People who never see a reptile outside of an education show mistakenly assume they aren't kept as pets or nearly as popular as they are -- and the "never ever in public" stance, even when handled with common sense and small critters, is partly what feeds that problem. Have a brain in when and where? *Absolutely*, you are 110% correct? But never? Crawling into self-imposed exile, where we feel we can only view our pets by flashlight in locked rooms at midnight, will do the help community no favors.
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>>Cliff Earle

I agree, Cliff. I take my snakes out in my yard ALL THE TIME, and the neighborhood kids, and often their parents, always gather around and ask questions. It's like an impromptu presentation. I even helped the neighbor across the street get over her ridiculous fear of snakes. (She seriously thought a 3 foot black racer was going to attack her kids, even after she saw it bolt away when I came within 10 feet of it.) But eventually she got to the point where she actually petted my indigo snake. The problem isn't people going outside with their snakes, the problem is perpetuating the fear of snakes. Heck, I would much rather take my chances wallking near a guy with a python than a guy with big dog.

I like the idiots that walk around in 50degree weather with a boa sitting on their jacket.

In no way did I mean that I pratice, or enorse any of those activities. In fact, only one of my snakes has left the house since they arrived, and that was for a trip to the vet. I can count on two hands the number of people who have even seen my colection in person. My point is, I am bothered by the notion that reptiles are unsafe or unsuitable to be in public, simply because the general public thinks they're gross, scary, evil etc. I would argue that a person would be much safer walking next to me with a 7 foot boa hanging around my neck, than next to some of these idiots out there that buy a pit bull cause it "looks tough". As with anything else in this world, if you don't like something, DON'T LOOK AT IT, TOUCH IT, WATCH IT ETC. People spend way to much time worrying what the next man is doing.

BTW, I'm not trying to bag on dogs or any other pets. I wouldn't have a problem with someone keeping a hippo as a pet, so long as it is kept properly, and in a secure enviorment. This is still a free country, after all.

what is so free about this country really? I don't think I have ever felt free mabey better off than many elsewhere but I don't even know what the statement "free country" means anymore.
Rob

okay, how's this...imagine you're told what you are going to be, not when you grow up, but from the get go, trained in that profession, never to enjoy a hobby or leisure because what you do is what the government decides you're going to do.
Instead of say, you grow into being good at something, and decide that later on it's not what you had in mind. Here, you can pursue other interests, change career paths, become your own boss. Just a couple of small things really, but life as you know it here isn't like life in some other places. Life isn't always what you think it's going to be, it can be what you make of it, and here, anyone can try just about anything. No caste systems, no barriers that can't be overcome.
This bunch of legislation is one of those things to be overcome. i truly do not believe that this country is dumbed and numbed to the point that we can't fight for what we believe in and put our points across in cold hard facts, we may not have a ton of cash, but I want to hang on to what I have, and make more, while enjoying what I do. If that's not worth fighting for, or if that isn't one of your ideas of freedom, I don't know what is.
Oh yeah, freedom of speech, just another small thing...
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Todd Hughes

Todd, The problem is we really have very little freedom so we look to many other parts of the world where they have much less freedom to compaire ourselves to, and feel thankful for what we have. My idea of freedom is a country who leaves you alone to persue happyness. Our countery has become a micomanaging boss over the last 40 years. I am not trying to put down the US I would just like to have more freedom if we are going to say we are a "free country".
I have a question for you, do you think you have more freedom today than 20 years ago? how about 50 or 100 or 200 (this only applies if you are a white male)
My point is there is a rule for anything you want to do even in your own home witch you never really even own (just stop paying your goveronment rent ie. taxes and see how long befor they kick you out)
Free speach is not that rare except in the "crazy" countrys.
Next time you see a cop at the dougnut shop tell him to get off tis lazy butt and get back to work and see if freedom of speach helps you. (no offence to any police I am just trying to make a humorus point)
Rob

Hear, hear! Great post, Todd. I for one am still proud to be an American, and still proud of all that that stands for. There are of course problems-always have been, always will be-but I'm sick of these fanatics on the left and right attacking this country.

At least here we have ways to peacefully redress our grievances. If we lose then we lose, but at least here we won't be hunted down and killed for daring to fight back!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

What I think makes this country great is great people, not world movers and shakers, but people who aspire for better things, for themselves and for their children. When we get to the point where we [bleep] all the time and say this country sucks, well, I say get off your a$$ and do SOMETHING about it. Not anything, something specific. Use the brain God gave you and take back what was taken in smart, unified ways, not random acts of foolishness. If we really cared about what was going down we'd go there and be heard, whether there is your local, county, state, or federal gov't building and face to face our grievances, call into accountability those who are charged with representing our points of view. I'm so sick of hearing, we're such a minority, we don't matter in the whole scheme of things, I tell you this is a defeatist attitude and if you like your job, you'll fight for it, not lay down and pu$$ out. I've had enough of slick politicians sliding in the back door and illegally getting legislation passed that directly affects my well being. For my own good my @$$, if they wanted to do what was for my own good I'd be allowed to pursue my happiness, hunting snakes makes me happy, makes me productive, doesn't make me sick, gives me more goals to shoot for, I work harder to ge able to do it again and again. Nobody ever promised anyone happiness, but our forefathers guaranteed our right to pursue it, so I am not going to let someone who knows absolutely nothing about what makes me happy take it from me without they lose something they love, their job. If I were a Senator or Rep, I'd be getting my resume redone and brush up on my fall back trade, 'cause brother, there's gonna be some new jobs created in these upcoming elections. There's a time to reap and a time to sow, it's time to sow new seeds, tend the garden, pull the weeds, and reap a harvest. Tax break, we don't need no stinkin' tax breaks, we need to keep the jobs we have and find jobs for the ones lost, and get Americans off the freakin' welfare system. Go to work, pay your bills, go herpin', go back to work.

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Todd Hughes

Great post!!!!
Rob

and I wasn't even drinking!
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Todd Hughes