Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ive heard the interveiws which are nothing new.I spoke to a couple people who were there that thought it was a flop, poor turn out vendor and customer wise. I guess what im wondering is what exactly happened or is going to happen? What was the whole point of it?

While I did not hear much new coming from the speakers podium Friday night, I think a lot was accomplished behind the scenes both before, during and afterwards which is usually the case with these events. I was actually surprised and impressed at how much closer that USARK and PIJAC are working together. They both earn brownie points as organizations from me on that.

Were there problems in Tinley? Without a doubt. There were only half the vendors, the foot traffic was off because of weather, many important people including several of the main speakers were
unable to attend after their flights were canceled due to snow. But it was important to do it, to do it now BEFORE the USFWS request hits the streets. It was the last "down time" we are likely to get before we got down to the wire and our last chance to slip in a meeting.

I think that over the next few weeks you will see some solid results of the Tinley meetings and their aftermath.

I think that the NEXT reptile law summit will be even better.
I just hope we can schedule it for somewhere/sometime other than Chicago in winter simply to the vagaries of weather.

I guess what im wondering is what all this behind the scenes stuff is. The people i spoke to were customers and from their stand point the show didn’t have the desired effect. They walked away from it with a negative opinion when tickets are $15(expensive compared to other shows) and the show is a wash, the message got lost. They walked away frustrated and feeling gouged cause the pricey tickets when they didn’t really learn anything new. One person I spoke to felt it was just the promoters wanted to plug another show in to make money since there didn’t seem to be anything new conveyed to the general public. Also it was frustrating when a lot of the “big names” didn’t even take the time to set up but were wandering around the show. I’m just trying to offer up some food for thought from people I spoke to, to help make these more effective.

I think something that you guys that have more fincial resources and attending one of these things isnt the burden to you that it is to most of us are overlooking. When you get people who in a bad economy are suffering financially to invest time and money they don’t have extra of(gas hotel food etc), to travel, then get hit with one of the highest door fees in the country. They don’t see anything new as far as information/planning goes and vendors they’d most like to see behind a table are wandering the isles and didn’t even set up. When they don’t set up it gives the appearance even they knew it wasn’t going to be worthwhile. It’s frustrating and instead of a feeling of accomplishment or betterment the message gets lost when they walk out the door frustrated feeling like their time and money has been wasted. I was going to go on Sunday but after hearing what Saturday was like I wasn’t gonna spend $200 in gas plus food, door fees etc.

I agree completely next time needs to be in a better location and what not. Also think the “big names” need a little more pressure to set up to show people they also are going to put as much time and resources into all this as possible. If nothing more by them setting up people such as myself getting to see the new exciting projects morphs and what not on their tables,will atleast walk away with a positive attitude getting to see alot of cool stuff.

Another question I got for you Jeff is Kerry King I know your good friends with him. Is it possible to get him more involved in this. With the American carnage tour coming up he and Slayer have a lot going on, their going a lot of places that could bring a lot of awareness to this. Would it be possible to set up some kind of displays that could be set up at their merchandise booths? You and I both know that there is going to be a ton of reptile keepers attending these shows. Also just the individual people that will be at Slayer/Megadeth shows we know are the kind of people that believe in standing up for what’s right against the system. Ya know? I mean if you’re a wuss that’s scared of the world and afraid to voice your opinion, you don’t go to a Slayer concert. Is it possible to get him to use some of the star power to get some tv time about this or atleast set something up at the shows. Also I’ve wondered that about Chad Brown and Nicolas Cage? I mean these are guys that could literally make 2 phone calls and get a boatload of cameras turned in their direction. I have no idea how anybody could get a hold of Nicolas, I do know he keeps a large collection of reptiles but I know your friends with Kerry and Chad.

>>Another question I got for you Jeff is Kerry King I know your good friends with him. Is it possible to get him more involved in this. With the American carnage tour coming up he and Slayer have a lot going on, their going a lot of places that could bring a lot of awareness to this. Would it be possible to set up some kind of displays that could be set up at their merchandise booths? You and I both know that there is going to be a ton of reptile keepers attending these shows. Also just the individual people that will be at Slayer/Megadeth shows we know are the kind of people that believe in standing up for what’s right against the system. Ya know? I mean if you’re a wuss that’s scared of the world and afraid to voice your opinion, you don’t go to a Slayer concert. Is it possible to get him to use some of the star power to get some tv time about this or atleast set something up at the shows. Also I’ve wondered that about Chad Brown and Nicolas Cage? I mean these are guys that could literally make 2 phone calls and get a boatload of cameras turned in their direction. I have no idea how anybody could get a hold of Nicolas, I do know he keeps a large collection of reptiles but I know your friends with Kerry and Chad.

Ill take a moment to hit on this as well as a few other things. One thing to look at with the larger breeders is HONESTLY traveling with larger constrictors in the winter is a PITA and very hard on the snakes. The fact however that they were there, meeting with the folks from both USARK and PIJAC is something to be looked at. Sure they didnt have a booth and selling their animals, but these breeders were there for the community as a whole. The simple fact that they werent there making money needs to be looked at. They were spending money not making it to be part of this weekend. BTW I believe $15.00 is the normal admission for all NARBC shows. I know its more than the local shows, but I do believe that is the norm. Both Jeff and I were there and we spoke with a LOT of people. Granted I would have LOVED for it to be in a warmer climate but hey I live in Wisconsin, what can I say.

On to the celebrities, this was something heavily discussed. In fact I spoke extensively with Chad Brown about it Saturday evening. Chad is game and all for it. He is more than willing to do the dance so to speak for us as a community. All they need to do is speak up. I do think Kerry would also be willing to some extent, with the tour and being on the road for many months right now that will be hard, but as a huge fan of Megadeth and knowing Dave's political themes I agree that may be a very good venue to reach out to a new crowd. The drawback is that often times labels control the output of info at these shows. Not sure the logistics involved, but Jeff and I can chat and see what we can get Kerry to do. Several celebrities names were floated.

That was part of the good thing of coming together. Everyone got a chance to sit and think about who and what are part of the community as a whole and now we have a few ideas to move forward with.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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I listened to all the interviews and felt they were very heartfelt, sincere, and somewhat understated...not scripted, staged, or jocked-out in any way.
I wish to offer my personal thanks and gratitude to those involved, for all that is being done.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Well as for the larger snakes ive never seen them bring anyting but smaller ones to the show. Im just tryn to make the point of how it apears. People that arnt die hards want to see all the neat stuff and when they walk away dissapointed thats what they remeber cause the message isnt as important to them. You can make all the arguements you want about how it sold be as important but its not and thats just reality. I guess my point about the admission when the place is full and sold out its one thing but when its half capacity and costs the same you feel screwed from the moment you walk in the door.

As far as Chad thats awesome and when i started asking about what was accomplished thats one of the things i was wondering.Even though you may not have a formulated plan with him yet i think thats something that should be advertised.Cause with the die hards thats gonna spark some new life into this fight "weve finally got some people with some power stepping up on our side" and even the average person wow ya know look at this. As for Dave/megadeth I almost gaurentee he wont get involved, hes scared of snakes. And with Kerry I honestly wouldnt ask him to voice any of this during the show. Theres gonna be alot more fans pissed if time is spent making political statements versis playing music. Cause your right about the stage time its stricly controlled. Thats why i pointed out the merchandise booth some displays could be set up right next to the booths that wouldnt take to terribly much to do.There all ready lugging the merchandise from show to show

On to the celebrities, this was something heavily discussed. In fact I spoke extensively with Chad Brown about it Saturday evening. Chad is game and all for it. He is more than willing to do the dance so to speak for us as a community. All they need to do is speak up. I do think Kerry would also be willing to some extent, with the tour and being on the road for many months right now that will be hard, but as a huge fan of Megadeth and knowing Dave's political themes I agree that may be a very good venue to reach out to a new crowd. The drawback is that often times labels control the output of info at these shows. Not sure the logistics involved, but Jeff and I can chat and see what we can get Kerry to do. Several celebrities names were floated.

That was part of the good thing of coming together. Everyone got a chance to sit and think about who and what are part of the community as a whole and now we have a few ideas to move forward with.

I have spoken to Kerry King about this and it is certainly a concern of his but the problem is that the crossover interest
(Slayer Fans/Snake Fans) is very limited, as is his and Slayer's mainstream appeal. That does not mean Kerry has ruled such a project out he just hasn't had the right one yet, and none of my ideas has been robust enough. Trust me I have spent 4 years looking for the crossover interest with our music site and it just isn't strong enough.

I know that Chad filmed an interview for USARK in Chicago and has offered his services numerous times on numerous projects. As far as Nicholas Cage, he has proven to be unreachable, at least to myself. Alice Cooper does not actually keep snakes and has limited interest in participating. I have tried numerous times to reach Slash but we keep missing each other at SXSW and other local gigs and he doesn't respond when I try my back channel contacts nor front channel, but he knows I am trying to reach out.

There are other celebs that do not want to participate for reasons of their own, but even if we got all of the ones I have named and a few I haven't we don't quite have enough people to remake "we are the world"

As far as the show part, your preachin to the choir, but they had a limited time budget and time frame to get it all together and I don't think they would have drawn as many of the general public to the talk without the show.

I would have done it as just a law seminar for 2 1/2 days but that wouldn't have covered expenses more than likely and wouldn't have drawn enough people on short notice. Even so I believe the NARBC ran the show at a loss.

I'd like to see something like I have described on an annual basis with workshops on how state laws work, how bills become law, how to fight at a state level, how to utilize social media strategies to manage a grass roots campaign, how to engage with the mainstream media, things of that nature. I'd like to see every reptile club send a representative so that it becomes a network of force multipliers across the national/international community, sharing data and strategies, making connections and partnerships, and each one spreading the word to hundreds of others.

"I'd like to see something like I have described on an annual basis with workshops on how state laws work, how bills become law, how to fight at a state level, how to utilize social media strategies to manage a grass roots campaign, how to engage with the mainstream media, things of that nature. I'd like to see every reptile club send a representative so that it becomes a network of force multipliers across the national/international community, sharing data and strategies, making connections and partnerships, and each one spreading the word to hundreds of others."

I agree completly, IMO this is the best idea yet. Well you and Cindy I apreciate your time. Im glad to hear how involed Chad is andf that hes willing to use his "celbrity" statis to do what he can. If I ivest in any projects ill make sure to look him up first. Also you guys hear at Kingsnake are doin an awesome job in dire time and i commend you for that!

I only live 3 hours from Tinley Park so I took time from my part time, weekend job at a local pet store to attend the Friday night meeting and both days at the show.

My biggest disappointment from the whole weekend was that from my point of view at the local pet shop, the message is not getting across to the local pet stores. Yes we have the ear of the breeders. Yes we have the ear of the true hobbyists. But we still do not have the ear of enough pet shops and the general public to make a real hard hitting stand. The same people that sell many of the reptile supplies and feeders to the general public should also be actively involved and they quite frankly are not. I spoke with a representative from the Indianapolis UNCLE BILLS Franchise and the response was that a mass e-mail was sent to all of thier employees to have them sign and send out. There was no answer as to how many had actually forwarded the e-mail. I even made copies of the form letters to our state senators and handed them to the store manager for them to get people to sign. After 1 week of that I had 1 set of papers from the Fort Wayne store. I had collected about 75 copies from my store. Isn't the business the same business that the local pet stores are in too? This is really quite saddening to me since we could have had the next group under fire (the aquarium coral community) on our side in a scratch my back and I’ll scratch your scenario. I subscribe to CORALS Magazine as well and in my on-line subscription notices, I found out this week that the aquarium coral trade has just been hit with the same scenario where some activist group out west has asked that more than 80 species of corals be added to the Endangered Species Act.
The dummies out there are citing that Global Warming is creating habitat destruction for the corals making them more and more rare. I really don't think that corals can just crawl off of their rocks and move to deeper water. This Endangered Species Act would have exactly the same consequences as the LACEY Act in that there will be no more importation, no more Intrastate Transport and you would have to have special permits just to have corals. I sure wish they were coming to us saying “Hey, could you return the favor and sign this petition”. Point is, the local pet stores are not involved enough. USARK has done a pretty good job so far but I think that PIJAC and the National Pet Counsel need to step up their efforts in this area. Fortunately for the store I work at, I am the sounding board for these issues since I’m a “Lifer” when it comes to both Reptiles and Fish.

Chris

"Yes we have the ear of the breeders. Yes we have the ear of the true hobbyists. But we still do not have the ear of enough pet shops and the general public to make a real hard hitting stand. The same people that sell many of the reptile supplies and feeders to the general public should also be actively involved and they quite frankly are not."

Well, yes. This would make sense. Some of us, including myself, believe the franchise corporate players are just waiting it all out on the sidelines, ready to make their big money deals with Government after the true aficionados are banned. In effect dumbing it down to the current Petco/Petsmart business model and level of expertise. If that ever does happen, it will indeed be a sad day for Herpetoculture.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer