Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this in the health section...but I think its a dead forum...

I have a female who's shedding very frequently, by frequently I mean 30 Jan and then again 15 Feb. She is not growing and is actually losing girth.

I've tried getting her in the vet but they are kind of blowing me off, looking for Pancur online now to try a shotgun treatment.

She is eating and defecating and shedding but she acts like she has stomach cramps and is fairly uncomfortable looking.

Anyone have any thoughts...

I tried emailing Jeff Ronne but either he is away or my email gets bounced.
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Jeff has a policy that he'll address your concerns regarding animals you've purchased from him, so if you did, try calling him and I'm sure he'll help you out. If not, he's a VERY busy guy and may not be able to help you out.

As for the rapid shedding, I've heard of it before, but don't know what the cause is. A vet should NOT be blowing you off for something as serious as that. Find a more compassionate and knowledgeable vet, asap.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I have had it happen before.. The main source was rodents being fed hog chow with growth hormone! This caused the animals to have a hyperthyroid gland which controls shedding.. Blood panels should be run. All the animals that I had that did this unfortunately died.. Necropsies where done to rule out IBD or other causes... This is what caused me to start breeding all my own rodents!!QUALITY CONTROL.. I have not had this problem since I have breed my own rodents.. I feed only Mazuri 5M30 rodent chow...

Sorry your going through this!!!Best of Luck keep us posted!!

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

>>I have had it happen before.. The main source was rodents being fed hog chow with growth hormone! This caused the animals to have a hyperthyroid gland which controls shedding.. Blood panels should be run. All the animals that I had that did this unfortunately died.. Necropsies where done to rule out IBD or other causes... This is what caused me to start breeding all my own rodents!!QUALITY CONTROL.. I have not had this problem since I have breed my own rodents.. I feed only Mazuri 5M30 rodent chow...
>>
>>Sorry your going through this!!!Best of Luck keep us posted!!
>>
>>Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Thanks for the advice...unfortunately...

I breed my own rodents, using the same feed, and I've done so for the last 3 yrs.

I'm still betting on internal parasites, as as her body is often positioned abnormally, like she is having a bad bowel movement. She also drinks a fair amount of water...

Still waiting to her back from the vet...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

You will also unfortunately find a-lot folks afraid to talk about anything bad that has happened in their collections..

I would still get a some blood work done! I do all my own fecals.. A microscope is a valuable tool as the best results with fecals idealy is ASAP. A-lot of parasites degrade after 24 hours... I would look into the thyroid, the steroid in the hog chow is just one of many things that could cause this condition.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

>>You will also unfortunately find a-lot folks afraid to talk about anything bad that has happened in their collections..
>>
>>I would still get a some blood work done! I do all my own fecals.. A microscope is a valuable tool as the best results with fecals idealy is ASAP. A-lot of parasites degrade after 24 hours... I would look into the thyroid, the steroid in the hog chow is just one of many things that could cause this condition.
>>
>>Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Thanks, perhaps I should pursue being the first Herp vet in my state....

Next stool sample will get into the clinic ASAP...I mentioned the stool and blood but I think he wants to weed out an eating disorder...

I imagine he'll do a fair amount of research between now and tomorrow...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

>>Jeff has a policy that he'll address your concerns regarding animals you've purchased from him, so if you did, try calling him and I'm sure he'll help you out. If not, he's a VERY busy guy and may not be able to help you out.

Well I've discussed things with him via email in the past having never bought a boa from him, not that I'm apposed to doing so. I also realize he's a very busy man but the email went off two weeks ago. I'm just figuring it was blocked because its a common theme with my server. Regardless rather than bother him again I posted to the forum, seeking HELP.

>>As for the rapid shedding, I've heard of it before, but don't know what the cause is. A vet should NOT be blowing you off for something as serious as that. Find a more compassionate and knowledgeable vet, asap.

Easy to say find a decent Herp vet in the middle of no where... The only reason the one vet in 100 miles even talks to me is our history. You of all people should be aware of the walls people put up in the bible belt in regards to reptiles...let alone snakes.

The vet I'm sure has had a busy day and I had a busy last week, so perhaps blew me off was the wrong term...

Once again the Boa forum proves little help...perhaps I should have posted a picture with "look at me look at me" as the title. This is not attack on you or anyone in particular but I've grown tired of sifting through the threads on this forum for anything that resembles a discussion...at least this time of the year.

Cheers
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Wow dude. You need to show some respect for the people who are willing to try and help. There is no way to diagnose over a forum discussion. Maybe you need to find a new hobby.

>>Wow dude. You need to show some respect for the people who are willing to try and help. There is no way to diagnose over a forum discussion. Maybe you need to find a new hobby.

Sorry even re-reading my post I fail to see how I showed any disrespect to Jonathon or Al or even yourself. If anyone took it as such I apologize, however that doesn't preclude the fact that this forum in particular has become post after post of look at me look at me.

Don't get me wrong there is not a single sole here I wish harm against, but come on how many posts have been skipped because they were directly under or over a giant post regarding a birth or new morph...I thought there was a room for that.

Aside from my sour feelings in regard to the general boa forum, I still didn't ask for a diagnosis, hell even vets guess based on experiences.

All I was looking for is similar cases, Al's post for example was helpful in that regard, while it maybe a dead end its not without its merit.

Thanks

No sweat. No harm no foul

It could be many things..... I would start with fecal floats.... get microscopies done on some of them.... any vet can do this and should be able to recognize the common parasites..... There are some that are very difficult to diagnose though.... better to find a good herp vet than make guesses though.... you can only diagnose so much from text in a forum
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Not looking for a diagnosis just similar cases...

I've taken a stool sample and I just got off the phone with the vet and we are working towards a solution.

Closest Herp vet is Minneapolis, Rapid City or Bozeman... I have to make do with what I have, or find a different Hobby.

Thanks

Is the boa gravid???

I have had a couple of snakes with a fast shed problem. One was a young corn snake that was shedding every couple of weeks. The other was a gravid female Burmese python.

The python stopped eating and died soon after laying. All the eggs were fertile but also died. The python had the strangest shed skin I have ever seen. It was easily twice as thick as a normal shed and was irregularly thickened. The edges of the scales also tended to be slightly sawtoothed instead of smooth.

I think the python's problem was vitamin A deficiency. She would hardly ever take a rat. And most of the pigeons I fed her had been butchered for human consumption, which included removal of the liver, the main reservoir of vitamin A (I learned later).

The corn snake had shed skins that seemed easier to tear than normal. I gave it a drop of a good cage bird liquid multiple vitamin inside a dead mouse, and the problem cleared up.

If your boa's shed skins seem weaker than normal or thicker than normal, you might try the vitamins. I don't think they would hurt the snake any, even if the problem is something else. Doseage that was recommended to me years ago was whatever gives 10,000 IU of vitamin A per 40 pounds of snake once every two weeks. For lower weights increase the length of time between doses.

I am not a veterinarian. These are my experiences; they may have no applicability to your snake. Good luck.

Paul Hollander

>>Is the boa gravid???

My first thought as well but the answer is no, and I know this cause she hasn't been with a male in over 2 yrs.

Thanks for the info...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

I would also look to the feeder source you are using as well.... Are you getting high quality rodents.... ?? Boas have died in the past from bad batches of rodents.... Spoiled rodents could contain bacterial endotoxins..... There have been several threads posted regarding issues with Well known rodent suppliers selling these bad rats.... ALso feeders containing growth hormones could alter the normal metabolism... some rodent breeders use inappropriate food designed for growing livestock... these feeds contain growth hormones that could screw up a boas metabolism... Just another thing to keep in mind
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

I have had two Boas with what I call rapid shed syndrome. Both eventually died after more than a year of shedding every 17-25 days. At the start they ate like normal and acted like normal. Eventually they did become warn down and finally succumbed to what I assumed was the stress of the repeated shedding. The first one was a male Colombian 20 years ago. The second was a female Colombian about ten years ago. It progressed the same in both cases that I saw it. The female had never reproduced, but the male was a great breeder producing as many as four litter in a single season.

I have spoken to at least six and maybe more like ten other people that have had a Boa do this and in each instance those animals have died as well. I suspect it is some kind of hormonal imbalance that causes their skin to get the signal to shed over and over and over. But that is just a wild guess.

I wish I had something more positive to contribute.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Thanks for the insight Jeff.
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Do you give them city water?
The reason i ask is because city water has been shown to have hormones in it. Perhaps some are more sensitive than others.
You could try R.O. It can be bought for about .33 a gallon.

good luck!
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Jason Dowell

>>Do you give them city water?
>>The reason i ask is because city water has been shown to have hormones in it. Perhaps some are more sensitive than others.
>>You could try R.O. It can be bought for about .33 a gallon.

Funny you mentioned R.O as I've been using it for about a year...

Actually considering going back to tap due to the waste water in winter...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0.2 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic
0.0.2 Normal

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis