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Mice Group with the Male eating babies.

thunderpaws Feb 17, 2010 09:59 PM

I have had a 1.7 group of mice together since 11-7-09. In that time I have had one successful breeding with 7 babies. Today I had three litters delivered all in the same night. When I checked on them tonight one of the litters was gone. I found the males eating one of the babies. Is this group worth keeping or do I need to start over again? Why are only certain litters getting eaten? This is my second try with mice. I was told the males are good fathers....LOL. Thanks for any advice.

Bill
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2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

Replies (20)

prestigepythons Feb 17, 2010 10:18 PM

I would just start over I have tried a few times to give a group multiple chances and it never changes, I go with 1.3 to 1.4 and it usually works out well.

Bob

thunderpaws Feb 17, 2010 10:27 PM

OK,

Thanks...Should I just kill off a few of the females? And then just end up with a 1.4 group?

Thanks,
Bill
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2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

prestigepythons Feb 17, 2010 10:29 PM

I would also replace the male

Bob

thunderpaws Feb 17, 2010 10:32 PM

I have a male from one of there litters. Could I cull him and throw in his son? I have been told that the females will kill any new males introduced.

Thanks,
Bill
-----
2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

prestigepythons Feb 17, 2010 10:38 PM

Any time I have added a new male I waited until all litters were weaned to put him in and have had no problems

thunderpaws Feb 17, 2010 10:52 PM

Thanks a ton for the advice.

Bill
-----
2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

PHLdyPayne Feb 17, 2010 11:25 PM

How big of a cage do you have all these mice in? If they are feeling stressed due to crowded conditions, this will cause killing off and eating of young. Also, what are you feeding the mice?
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PHLdyPayne

thunderpaws Feb 18, 2010 12:10 AM

Mazuri 5M30 and they are in a 10 gallon tank with tunnels and hides. The male is only eating certain litters, but as of 30 minutes ago he and the 7 babies he ate are digesting nicely in my male pied.

Thanks,
Bill
-----
2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

Bolitochrome Feb 18, 2010 07:25 AM

I'd say a 10 gal tank for a 1.7 group is WAY too small. 1.4 in a 10 might work, but I bet the crowding is a large part of the problem. I don't know what the protein content on the Mazuri is, but you might want to consider supplementing it with some higher protein dog food (~16-20%). This would be too high of protein in maintenance food, but those breeders need all the protein and fat they can get. Don't go too high of protein though, because then it will taste bad and they won't eat it.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

wynterborne Feb 18, 2010 07:55 AM

I have about 40 mice I have 20 in a 75 gallon fish tank and the other ten in a 20 gallon tank and i think when they have more room they are fine I also have another 75 gallon tank that i will be putting the the pregnant females in when i get some more. I have been raising mice for two years and got my first snake in Aug. so I am new to the snake thing but I love our mice they seem to be the only pets my kids are not allergic too. and now they love watching the snake eat.

thunderpaws Feb 18, 2010 10:27 AM

Thank you for the advice. I am going to try a 1.4 group.

Bill
-----
2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

CaliRepGuy Feb 18, 2010 02:56 PM

I use small lab tubs from Big Apple with 1.2's. The litters are bigger, more consistent, healthier and grow faster. A male can do a much better job with less females.

I have found that a 1.2 colony produces as many babies as a 1.3 or 1.4.

Less females = bigger litters, more litters and faster growth.
More females = smaller litters, less litters and slower growth.

Never add males or females to existing colonies! They will almost always fight and possibly kill and/or eat babies.

I always kill off colonies that go "bad".

For food, after trying it all and comparing the breeding results, growth rates of the mice and growth rates of my snakes, I have settled on a mix of Purina and or Harlan block and Volmann rat & mouse sprinkled on top of the block. The Volkmann is seeds, grains, fruits, etc.

Good luck.

Kevin

thunderpaws Feb 18, 2010 03:23 PM

NP
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2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

PHLdyPayne Feb 18, 2010 08:30 PM

The Mazuri 5M30 is a good breeder mice diet, with at least 16% protein and 6% fat. Adding a basic seed mix for variety won't hurt either, or whole wheat/grain cereal (ie Cherrios) makes a great treat too (non sweetened cereals (ie no fruit loops and the like)) and a way to hand tame mice too.

The 10 gallon tank is way too small for 8 adult mice, much less them and babies. This is likely the main reason your males are eating babies (and probably the females too). Also, glass tanks are crappy rodent cages...it tends to have poor ventilation (down on the 'ground level') and ammonia from urine etc. can get trapped in the tank (not to mention it can overheat too...)

What I used to use for a group of 1:3 mice was a fair sized rubbermaid tub. It was deep enough the mice couldn't jump out of the tub (though never hurts to put on a lid (just cut out most of the center of the lid the tub comes with and replace with 1/4" wire mesh (hardware cloth))

Find a tub that has rounded corners and very shadow or no 'feet' indentations inside. This greatly reduces to completely eliminates the mice's ability to chew through the plastic. With a tub this size (I think it was something like a 110quart tub...though could get away with 75quarts). I had all kinds of toilet paper and paper towel tubes in there, 2" diameter PVC pipe sections, and other cheap paper/wood 'toys' for the mice to chew and play in, to keep them occupied (if bored or stressed, chewing though cage sizes tends to be the favorite pastime, if nothing else is there for them to play with). A wheel or two is also great addition. Make sure the wheel is free standing and has at least a mesh cover (solid is better, but never seen any of these that are free standing, most are designed to be mounted on 'bar' style cages..(and I don't trust the bar style cages as i have had adult mice squeeze through the bars and escape in these before, not to mention mice climbing all over the bars, tend to urinate out through the bars...and you end up with gummy smelly bars and 'splashes' of urine all around the cage).

Having two wheels ensure the mice don't end up fighting over who has the wheel (three adult mice on one wheel is amusing..but four or more..usually results in one or two mice clinging on while they are spun around like on a Farris wheel.

I also had side mounted wheels jam up (either mice bury it in bedding...or other objects get underneath it) and mice get trapped between the wall of the cage and the edge of the wheel, resulting in having their sides caved in.

The stand alone type also are less noisy and are pretty sturdy. The 8" diameter ones are the best size for mice...if I recall correctly.
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PHLdyPayne

thunderpaws Feb 18, 2010 08:52 PM

Thank you for the post. Very helpful.

Bill
-----
2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

wynterborne Feb 18, 2010 09:17 PM

I agree too but found that with my mice they JUMP out of anything so far i haven't had any more escape artists with the 75 gallon tank its a pain to clean out with bleach and water every two weeks and they get the bedding changed twice a week too. Make sure they have lots of chew toys. I also agree about the cheerios my mice love them they are going in two mins ever if they still have their food. lol

JYohe Feb 18, 2010 06:00 PM

usually it's a pregnant female that eats the babies
are they getting enough protein?
are they young?
are there too many babies?

I use kitty litter pans made into a rack...
I use 1 male to 15 females to start
I leave 21 to 31 babies per tank...no more usually...
.....males usually do not start the eating...

.....do not introduce mice to a colony...they will fight till death

...some mice breeds just suck...they are raised in conditions you cannot match in a home ...usually the ones around here will do ok for awhile them get sickly and die...maybe half of them...

my mice are used to heat,cold,dirt,dust,moisture...etc..LOL...they are mutts ,a mix of a whole bunch of different American and English breeds....they can take anything....they have been bred in my basement for 20 years and have been culled to be friendly and non-fighting ....

good luck...........
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......JY

JYohe Feb 18, 2010 06:05 PM

ok.more....I actually read your post...LOL

....they are 3 months old...they should be in their prime...

mice...setup and leave alone they should start dropping babies in about a month usually.....and when they breed for 6 months I cull them all out....and restart the whole colony....

...if they eat the kids...I give them a couple chances....I mark tank and after like 3 eaten litters...they go....

....I have 56 tubs of mice at 15 females each....so I can start any tub at any time without hurting my supply....

if you have 1 tank...I suggest you get different breed of mice and do 2 tanks....10 gallon tanks...like 1.6 to a tank...

.......pet shop mice are the worst.....go local hobbyist if possible....local shows or craig's list?....

..
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......JY

wynterborne Feb 18, 2010 09:20 PM

I got my mice at pet smart and haven't had any problems with them. They are tame enough for my two year old to hold with supervision and have lived on avarge for two years and i lost count of the litters we got.

wynterborne Feb 18, 2010 07:13 PM

sounds like my mice I have three 75 gallon tanks i have them in and they live to about 2 years if i don't feed them to the snake. all of mine get handled everyday by me and my kids so they are tame and I have never had one bite the snake. I have had the males eat the babies when they got jealous of the attention all the babies got from the females.

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