Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These are head shots of Fred and Wilma. Both are multihorned but Wilma is off the charts nice she has so many horns. Additionally they act like pet puppydogs and they will live here until they die....

FRED

WILMA

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

were are fred's extra horns? I don't see any in that pic

I see 5 horns in the pic plus at the very front are more very small ones. It's a bad angle but still...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I would say he is missing a horn. Two rows of three (soft) nasal horns are very common on rhino's. So....should there technically be more than 7(including the true horn) to be comsidered multi-horn, or in places not normally containing horns?

Actually I'm not sure exactly what you mean. My thoughts were that any Rhino that has more than 3 horns that protrude up is a multihorn Rhino. I wasn't aware of any standards other than that. I do know I've seen only a few as nice as Wilma. I have 2 others almost as nice regarding horns but they weren't out to take pics of today when I had the camera out there. I'll try to take some later...thanks..Those 2 horns on Fred are very hard to the touch if that means anything...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

By true horn I mean what is still there on a cleaned skull. ith regards to he nasal scales/horns. Doesn't every rhino have at least four of them? two behind each nostral. I have also seen alot that have three behind each nosril not including the main horn(usually on animals with longer snouts). Wilma is by far a multi horn.

I gotcha now but how would you know like with Fred as the two forward horns are as hard as the back 3? This is the first time I've ever heard of multihorn described this way and I'm not sure you could tell if that's the criteria unless it was dead....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

you couldn't. I think there is not a true definition of multi horn. I always thought the nasal horns were just enlarged scales as there are not a true horn like the main horn. Like this pic.

Most Rhino's have 3 pronounced horns. One lg one and 2 smaller ones toward the front of the skull. Anything more than 3 is more than normal if they protrude so I've always called them multi horned. Generally they have to have at least as many as Fred before I refer to them as multi horned. Wilma is one of the better examples of a multi horn...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

NICE SKULL...BUT I'LL BET IT LOOKED BETTER IN REAL LIFE...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Cool horns, I still cant figure out what they do with horns? Horns seem to have a purpose on other animals, like fighting or self defense. I haven't seen my rhinos use them, I've seen them scraping them on wood and that's about it. I think the biggest horns I have seen on a rhino were on a female in the DR so I don't think it's an attractant. KB

Wow ,what a response you got on those photo's.Thanks for posting them. Kind of makes you wonder what dinosaurs really looked like ornimentation-wise?? Kev your up to bat now post your multi-horns photo.Just wondering also if it is a dominant trait or are you getting just a couple multi-horned hatchlings? Either way I think they look awesome..Thanks again for sharing them.

I was always assuming for a display to attract the females maybe but now that you mention it that can't be valid either as Wilma is a producing female plus I think my next 2 best multi horns are female as well. It is strange as they don't use them in defense etc. Perhaps their feeding on something buried or half buried and the horns help to uncover the food item. I've watched these lizards for a long time and I don't have a clue but they look cool and that's enough for me...thanks...KWE I'd love to see pics of your multi horn Rhino. I've had every species of Cyclura except for collei and I think cornuta is still my favorite one....I'm not a big Varanid fan but this giant Blackthroat I got in a couple of weeks ago was pretty spectacular.....

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Kevin,

I concur that their are some females with tall spikes, and males typically have fatter horns, but I have think it is a masculine feature. When I had my clan living in the 20x50' cage, I found that the females with the biggest horns seemed to be the least desired for breeding by the males.

That's a very interesting enclosure. Personally I've never done a communal cage BUT have always toyed with the idea. The enclosure at ZooDom is an interesting one indeed. I did, however, do communal croc enclosures. I found that if you introduce the entire group at the same time and slightly overcrowd them I had reasonbly good success. I believe that the same may be true with Cyclura. My largest enclosure now is 15' x 18' x 6' tall. It's not quite large enough but one thing I do have is room to build other cages. When I do I'm going to do an open top cage similar to the one in the DR but bigger I'm thinking. How many lizards and what sex ratio did you have together? How many clutch's did you have per year? In general any info you could give me would be welcome..GREAT LOOKING ENCLOSURE..
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Big cage was compensation for unmonitored environment. When monitored, 3.5 was the max, only because no time for more than that on Long Island, NY. Every female layed eggs, but never a double. Males and females that had already laid were pulled to reduce stress for the gravids. If you like Zoodom, check out Manti, bigger ! ZooDom and Manti are too dense, but the density of the Cubans on Mayagues can probably be repeated with Cornuta. For a Florida super exhibit, consider growing the mesquite and other trees used for food at Manti -- the rhinos love them. Photo taken inside the Manti exhibit.

Please forgive my ignorance but that "zoodom" and the others you refer I assume are zoological exibits that have huge outdoor enclosures for their Cyclura? Do they have web pages or something? Would LOVE to visit them

Zoodom is the zoo in Santa Domingo DR. At a glance, I cant find a useful website.

jf

Manti park is near Punta Cana on the East Side of the Dominican Republic. The website does not show much in the way of the iguanas. If you ever want to do a cheap caribbean vacation to an all inclusive resort, Go to Punta Cana. Most of Manti parks visitors come from these resorts, and there is a free bus service from the park to many of the resorts.

Cycluras on Long Island Represent! lol thats where we are.

Tom those multi horns are amazing the three babies I picked up from you are getting big quick! they are also super calm.

Wilma looks like a freakin' triceratops! Very interesting.

I've never seen the appeal of the multihorns and always considered my cornuta to be typical. I was inspired to take a closer look at their photos and, compared to Fred, I guess some folks might consider them multihorned (maybe extra-horned would be a better description since they are all multihorned). Bubs has more smaller horns anterior to the 2 secondary main horns. Scrub has a small extra horn right between those secondary main horns. None of my cornuta have had the same number and position of rostral horns. Doesn't really matter to me because I agree with Tom. If all of the lizards had to go except for one species I'd keep my cornuta due to their awesome personalities, prehistoric appearance, and hardiness.

Fred should look familiar to you. If my sources are correct, Fred was formally named Jordan -- from the same clutch as Bubbles. If Fred and Vilma came as a pair from Wyoming, then they were my 1998 hatchlings from 2 separate, totally unrelated clutches. Bubbles and Jordan are nice normal horned rhino iguanas bred from large parents(Walter and Lev),and should grow to be Giants. If I am correct above, Wilma is the offspring of a tall spiked normal female, and what I called a multihorned male. Multihorned referring to there being a cluster of horns in the location that normally has just one big horn.

Actually they and another female did come from a guy in Wyoming who I thought had a great love for these lizards considering the pics he sent me of their enclosures. While I have other very tame similar Rhino's some of which I produced like Rosco which is Patty's favorite. Rosco is a BIG 7 year old male that is going to ony get bigger and he's close to the size of Fred now. I aquired them to sell because I have so many but fell in LOVE with them and kept them all. Quickly Fred and Wilma became my favorites. These have to be the same lizards. You say they should get huge and I believe it as they still seem to be growing albeit slowly. For me the horn thing doesn't matter and never did as I just love them all. I'm not sure of the criteria for multi-horn and again never really cared although it seems different folks have different ideas of what it means [see the post above and the one above that one]. Quite simply Cyclura cornuta is arguably the most rewarding and interesting reptile in Herpetoculture today or at any other time for that matter....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Thanks John and Tom. I am well aware of where Fred and Wilma came from and should have realized that Fred is actually Jordan. I've tried to keep track of Jordan the last 10 years just because he is Bub's brother. Bubs is and always has been a big girl, larger than Scrub who is the same age. Bubs is the light of my life and I would have taken Jordan in a heartbeat had I had the space. John, you produced some amazing animals and I'm so honored to have Bubs in my family. Tom, please don't be offended or irritated if I inquire about Jordan now and then.

A friend with Scrub and Bubbles at Reptile Fest in Chicago, 2007 I think.

I welcome your inquiries and assure you he's a happy lizard...Patty loves him and brings him treats often [healthy ones of course]...LOL...TREAT TIME

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

is that a donut? When I do weekend-long exhibits with Bubbles she always gets part of a donut for breakfast each morning. I swear that lizard would do just about anything for a plain old cake donut!

I think it looks like white bread?

It's our secret treat, plain old potato bread. All my Iguanas and Cyclura LOVE it....

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Here is a pic of Rosco when he was 4 years old. He's now 7 years old and much bigger. I'll get current pics later. I produced this guy....

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

This one is a sibling of Wilma -- Regulus is a male from the same clutch. The multi-horn is a morph. I have seen a few in the wild in the DR, but they are not that common. People tend to put a higher price on things that are rare. Regardless of the number of horns, they are arguably the most fascinating reptile in herpetoculture. The closest thing to having a little dinosaur.

I am glad that those lizards ended up in your good hands. They were hatched on the west coast, lived a few years in NY, then the rocky mountains, and finally in Florida. Amazing how hardy these lizards are, and they are just starting to enter their prime.

yes they are the same two wonderful rhino's. I wish I could of kept them but space was an issue at the time. I knew that Tom and Patty would fall in love with them as I did and give them a wonderful home to live. Glad to see pictures of them they look GREAT and HAPPY!!!!!!

Hi there and thanks again. I know about space because I had to put one of my holdback male lewisi x up for space reasons....thank,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

It would be cool to do some genetic reserch to figure out what is the genetics of this trait. Owesame animals as allways Tom!