Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is a photo of my Nile monitor which happens to be one of the most rewarding reptiles I have ever raised. He has calmed way down and loves being rubbed on the head and back,,, and doesn't even mind you touching his feet. He's 39 inches and great! I have even been able to trim his claws, and the whole time he didn't get angry once or even resist. It's unusuall that something classified as so mean can be so nice. Yea, he started out scared but has grown into and awsome lizard. I think the problem with these guys is people. Many people get scared of them when they are young and then they stay scared of them as adults and get rid of them or let them go rather than take time to get to know them. Hopefully someone realizes that banning these animals will not stop the problem of unresponceable reptile or any animal keeper. The glades is a good example of bad keepers, not bad animals!

Thats awesome man! It is an extremely rewarding feeling when you are able to tame an animal that has such a bad rep! I hope to be able to build a similar relationship with my new blue tail. Can you share some of the strategies you used to get him there?

thanks a bunch!
Ed

Thanks! The best words of advise are be very patient. Try to interact with him every day, even if it is just for a second. I would try to pet mine every day, of course he didn'tlike it sometimes but with time he got over that. Don't restrain him, just try to have physical contact and don't wear gloves when he is young. even if he bites, it won't be so bad. He needs to get used to you so that when he gets big, he knows those are hands and not food, or something else but otherwise just experiment and try to handle him in some way evey day.

Just word of advice you shouldnt have to be trimming his nails. Also from the look of the picture you are housing him all wrong. Looks like aspen bedding when he need dirt and it looks like he is in an aquarium. If this is true I would look up his care sheets. With an enviroment like that no wonder he just sits there he is probably slowly dieing. And as I said this is all from just looking at the picture.
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.2.1 Sulcata Tortoise (tank, sahara and skittles)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.1 Painted Turtles (moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow and Sparkles )
0.0.1 Sumatran Water Monitor (Tiny)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.2.0 Dog (layla, Roxy and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
0.0.1 Aligator Snapping turtle
0.0.1 Mexican Red Knee Tarantula
0.0.1 Emporor Scorpion
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon
0.0.1 Argentina Black and White Tegu
2.1.0 Columbian Red Tail Boas
Lots Of Fish

Thanks but he is just fine. He is quite happy and niles don'tdig as much as want to swim. The love to swim then deficate which requires a big pool more than anything and they love the branches over the water where they feel safer and can back there. Really to be 100% correct I would need a large environment larger than what most zoos have to properly wear his nails down and thats not feasible for most reptile keepers. I mean that you would literally need acres for him to roam over all terains. His nails were actually fine and not overgrown but I decided to trim them so its easier and less dangerous to hold him without being shredded. He didn't mind the nail trimming at all, we have a good levle of trust. Not to say that he couldn't do something unpredictable but any and all living creatures are capable of that. Check out my other photos and you will see a couple of branches in the cage he loves to climb on.

>>Thanks but he is just fine. He is quite happy and niles don't dig as much as want to swim.

This quickly brings to mind a question: How long have you had Niles and what amount of experience with them are you basing this on?
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Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

>>Really to be 100% correct I would need a large environment larger than what most zoos have to properly wear his nails down and thats not feasible for most reptile keepers.

Exactly the reason Monitors are not suited for most (hardly any) reptile keepers.

From what I have seen, I'd agree...most zoos don't keep monitors properly, so you are indeed seeing the big picture. For the private keeper though, a room converted (properly) to a monitor enclosure like Sidbarvin did is a good place to start.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

Hello Mantafish,
I think it is wonderful that you are so excited about your Nile. It has that beautiful blue/gray pattern on its face as well. I hope you will be more cautious when using statements like "he loves" or "doesn't mind" as these are your interpretations of the lizards behavior. Words like "tolerate" are much better because the keeper whos Nile does not "love" them or "like" being touched is the keeper who feels they got shorted and kicks it out the back door or neglects the animal to it's death. With regards to you Mantafish, the real challenge is still coming. A 39" lizard is what most keepers should choose- adult size. Your lizard, if male, will far surpass this and probably double in length and at least quadruple in girth... Niles qualify as a large varanid. Housing(well), handling(when needed) and feeding(alot) become a whole new scenario. You have up to now brought your lizard beyond the baby stage but you are about to encounter the greatest challenge yet. It is normally when people realize just how enormous their "pet" and responsibility is becoming, that they abandon them. With your post, You are setting an example... You must remain consistent for the next 20 years for your lizard to be satisfied with your example. You will gain the respect and support of other keepers here if you succeed.
On a different note, irresponsible keepers account for a very small number of the animals in the glades if any(most released animals are released, found and captured in residential areas)... Hurricanes are responsible for many.

Thanks! You are correct in saying tolerable for some interactions but he really does love having his head rubbed He will set there and lay his head down and close both eyes nearly going to sleep. Yea, actually the more time I spend with him, the more rewarding it gets. We definately learn alot about each other in these interactions. I think most keepers remain scared of them and don't interact enoug,, thats a guess anyway. They just have different ways of communicating there feelings, if hes unhappy he may do little or do a tail slap, not a full tail whip which is what he does when he is really angry... Its just in how you learn to interpret your animals subtle communications. He can't just say hay, I don't like that, so he may hiss a little to let you know. I believe that communication is they key to understanding your animal. You need to learn their language. lol They learn yours too.

That's awesome that you have a calm and tolerant animal. I once had a Nile monitor that tolerated me and she was a real joy (I've also had many that were completely paranoid and very difficult to work with - you got quite lucky!). As someone who has owned many monitors and made his share of mistakes, I hope you can learn from me and not repeat those same mistakes. First, from your photo, it looks like your husbandry could stand to be improved. Wood shavings are not a very desirable substrate. I find I've been posting this link a lot http://panoptesv.com/HBD/tricks.html - but these are the methods that work to keep monitors healthy (the link is about argus monitors, but it applies just as well to Niles). If I had known how to properly care for my one tractable Nile, she might still be with me today, rather than dead of organ failure after three years (which is the usual result of monitors kept in conditions that lead to chronic dehydration, like yours seems to be - and no, just providing water in a dish does not help. Also be sure you are using the proper temperatures).

You may find that when you keep your monitor properly, it will start feeling better and as a consequence be more willing to defend itself from a perceived predator (i.e., you). It is unfortunate, but it is the price we pay for being able to experience these amazing lizards in all their awesomeness. Here's hoping yours stays just as calm as before!

As far as trimming their nails, you may find that if you hand up a large piece of hardware cloth and let your lizard cling to it, you can go around to the other side and trim the nails without difficulty. It usually works for me.

Good luck,

Luke

Thanks! He is very healthy and happy. I choose pine because he really doesn't burrow that much and its easy to keep clean , although he normally deficates in his water. I have a large trough which he swims in and sometimes sleeps in although he uses his hide box sometimes to sleep. He spends a lot of time hanging out in his branches though. I do have hardware cloth on his cage which he climbs on but really, he needs so much more space to really wear his nails down. There is nothing wrong with his claws, I just did that to minimise my potential injuries when handling him. Notthat he is trying to hurt me, he is just moving around and with steak knives like those I just took the edges off to minimise his cutting power

I also have a Black throat and he does have soil to dig in. Its a medium weight soils that sticks togeather with submerged boxes he burrows into, thats so his burrows don't colapse and he feels like hes doing something. The nile doesn't burrow as much as he likes climbing and swimming.

Get him off the pine shavings. Those and cedar are toxic to reptiles they release an toxic oder. You definately should have had more experience before getting these large lizards. I mean I am far from an expert but I am open to take peoples advice and critisim. The soil is not only for digging it is to keep humidy up. Those shavings dry the air. So does the screen top you probably have on the cage. Your monitor is closing his eye probably not to relax and go to sleep but because he is petrified of you. This isnt a dog. Learn to not think you know everything even experts are always learning more from others.
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.2.1 Sulcata Tortoise (tank, sahara and skittles)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.1 Painted Turtles (moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow and Sparkles )
0.0.1 Sumatran Water Monitor (Tiny)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.2.0 Dog (layla, Roxy and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
0.0.1 Aligator Snapping turtle
0.0.1 Mexican Red Knee Tarantula
0.0.1 Emporor Scorpion
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon
0.0.1 Argentina Black and White Tegu
2.1.0 Columbian Red Tail Boas
Lots Of Fish

Mantafish,
I can tell that you have spent some time watching your Nile but your knowledge of what life is to be a Nile is very limited... You have made some statements that are definitely questionable as Mike H. pointed out below on the forum. I know you are excited about your Nile and seem to be a fun loving person but some of your interpretations are off base and they will leave your lizards not having so much fun... Have caution about misleading others who may be "younger" than yourself with these animals. Niles will dig extensively if you provide for this(so will BT's and not just for something to do!!!). They will also swim and dive beneath the water surface if you provide space for this... You mentioned climbing on hardware cloth- the top??? As I mentioned to you before, your Nile will become much larger than it is now- 39"- so I hope you are thinking of how you will provide the space and some new accomodations for it to dig and swim. If it is a female, it will perish in time without a diggable substrate(nesting medium) of some kind. Other forum members(experienced) can offer you a wealth of information if you care to inquire and are willing to listen... Sidbarvin has done for his Nile monitors what few in the world have done for captive niloticus. Hopefully, he will drop a few lines on behalf of your lizard. He is a great guy and has actively delivered his knowledge into the wellbeing of his animals. I hope this will help... Best to you- Mike S

Before you or anyone questions my knowledge, know that I have been successfull with my reptiles because of the methods I use and they have been happy and healthy. As far as reptile suitibility goes I do love my nile and I don't give a [bleep] what anyone thinks about that. If anyone thinks thats not professional, shove off. Look at Sigfried and roy or any other attached keeper and realize they all knew their animals and yes, there is always the possibility of injury and sometimes death. I keep my monitor in an environment where he is happy and healthy so before you haters start assumptions, don't. I put my info on here to share not to be hated on. Share your ideas but don't make assumptions based on you lack of knowledge of my reptile husbandry practices. I have been raising and breeding reptiles for 25 years know and do know my reptiles and the husbandry to keep them happy and healthy.

PS .. you can share your husbandry practices just like I do and it would be gratefully appreciated, and as all of you know, reptile husbandry has been constantly evolving and we learn new things every day about how we can keep these animals and if it doesn't hurt the animal and in fact helps them live in a captive environment, we should share with others, which is what I am doing. So I do really want to know other keepers experiences and the outcome. I do not speak scientiffically:SP all the time and I won't because this is general discussion. I Have studied biology ecology and natural sciences at a well know university and absolutely know that there is not one right way to keep reptiles, just the commonly accepted way that is okay but its good to experiment if you have a sound grasp on how healthy and happy your animal is. If your method hasn't worked in the past you turn to other keepers for advice, You don't have to listen to anything I am saying and I am sure that many don't and you don't have to. You can keep doing things the same way you all have in the past and be victim to whatever outcome results or you can experiment and try new things and find new and better ways to sole the worlds problems, disprove fale assertions based on so called scientific evidence and make a better impact on the world. Not everyone is capable of this, yet agin I am just sharing these experience and you don't have to listen.

Mantafish,

Let's just stick to the facts.

You have yet to share details of your enclosure or other aspects of your husbandry.

What about Temps? Surface temps? Air temps? Humidity? Screen top? Nesting site?

All that we know is the picture you provided and the words you have spoken.

You defended the fact that you were housing a Nile monitor in dry wood chips (cedar?).

You speak of your Nile monitor as if it's a puppy that "loves" a head rub.

If your monitor was being kept properly he would not simply let you mess with his/her head much less "love it".

Where are the pictures of the set up you have your monitor in?

People aren't "jumping down your throat" just because you have a Nile. So get over that much. People would be questioning (trying to help you and others) you no matter WHAT species you are keeping.

You have a long ways to go and you and your Nile might not get there unless you start becoming open to correct husbandry.

Everyone here on this forum are trying to help you and your nile, they arent trying to bash you but help you understand. Your nile is slowly dieing living in such a dry pine shaving environment. He is sleeping in his water most likely because he is dehydrated. These wonderful creatures should live in an enclosure that resembles their natural habitat. That means dirt and lots of space andd hiding places and water areas.

Did you know that all animals except for reptile double and triple their lifespan in captivity! Reptile live less than half as long in captivity than they do in the wild!! This why we should try and mimic their natural habitat as closely as possible.
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"If you talk to animals,
they will talk with you
and you will know each other.

If you do not talk to them,
you will not know them,
and what you do not know
you will fear.

What one fears,
one destroys."
.

-Chief Dan George

i know alot of people are jumping down your throat about this whole thing, and im not trying to join in but just because your nile does not dig in the the soil doesnt mean that you should put him on something that makes it easier for you to take care of. we all know soil, sand, and all the the things thats these animals need can be very messy and not look the best but we also dont keep these animals to force them to like what we like. We want them to be happy and healthy first. so for the best intrest of your pets that you love, it is best to house them with as many things to simulate their life in the wild as possible. they benifit from everything that you provide them with, and for nile monitors they HAVE to have a place to dig. niles are diggers. just think about what they love to eat in the wild, and how they get to that food source. it is pre-programed in their heads to do so. Providing our animals with as many things they have in the wild that we possibly can is in my the hardest part of this hobby/lifestyle. the things they need isnt always going to be the the things we want to give them. you dont buy an animal so it can hide from you all the time but they have to have that place to hide. we dont put fresh clean water in their cage every day so they can make it a mud dish instead of a water dish in 20 minutes, or take a dump in it. but that doesnt mean im going to stop putting a big enough water dish in their cage. like i said im not trying to sound "angry" like alot of the people on here are doing. im not mad or telling you not to keep these animals and blah blah blah like so many people say on this forum. your animal isnt dead and it looks far from it. to me you are doing a good job its just that your animal will benifit from having soil in his cage and he will dig sooner or later. My nile only seems to dig at night. so when i go to sleep i can see it wondering around, but when i wake up i cant find him because he dug down in the soil. this happens every day now. My BT digs all day, it gets annoying that they always have mud all over them but they seem to be happy. So in my opinion it is best if you just go ahead and change him over to soil and make it deep enough for him to burrow. i really like using about 75/25 percent soil/sand mixture very easy to make and its cheaper to buy a couple bags of top soil and a bag or two of sand. think about how much they charge at pet stores for substrate? its alot cheaper. anyways i hope i didnt sound like everyone else. im not one of those "try to make you feel bad and sound like i know everything only because im sitting behind a computer screen" people. im just trying to make things as simple as possible. I own niles and Black throats also, and i am still learning everyday. so if there is anything that you want to get an opinion on or anything i would be happy to help. oh and by the way Roger "sidbarvin" is your best bet on getting any really good info on niles. he has done what most of the rest of us nile owners can only dream of doing. his animals are amazing!

take care

Thanks.. Soil sand, ect are naturalistic and I do use those most of the time. Just so happened that in this photo he was in the smaller holding tank at the time of the photo..What I have in his main cage is spagnum moss with submerged boxed to burrow into just like my blackthroat but I have a much larger Pool of water in the niles enclosure because they like to swim so much and deficate in the water. Of course a good basking area as well. I think I may stop posting info on Niles because it brings out soo many haters. Poor animal doesn't stand a chance with all that negative sentiment and neither do nile keepers. lol I just want to share ideas with other keepers, not get into some debate about the suitibility of niles,,,,, Guess what, I have him now so that argument is now void,,, I have him and I love to hear other keepers Ideas but not all the hate

Sorry, I don't want anyone to get upset in fact I want us all to share and thats why I posted the origional message. Yea I do get excited when I make my own reptile breakthroughs which is why I posted this and to share any good Ideas. We can do this! NOT EVERYONE SHOULD OWN A NILE. I have been working with all kinds of animals my whole life and felt up to this rewarding challenge.. Yea he could stay mean his whole life and I was ready for that. Their beauty alone is enough for me to risk injury for just like most all living things. Not everyone is so willing to do this but many of us are and are capable of doing so. Its like when someone works with bears or large cats. They can be classified as non suitible to many keepers but not for all keepers and yea, people do get injured or even killed by their animals on ocasion but that doesn't mean they are bad animals, thats means their keeper made a mistake that hopefully they can learn from but these posts can make it possible for keepers to hopefully avoid mistakes or make progress with their animals. Same goes for skydiving or anything like this that involves risk and has in this case specific needs to be met for the animal. Skydivers, even experienced ones incounter problem and even die themselves but it's a risk they are willing to take because of the great rewards they get from what they are doing and thats no different from me. I started out with and anole whn I was 3 years old and have had and still ahve many reptiles that I love and understand so I decided to go for a challenge because I was ready and not just to have a big cool lizard, which incidently, he is.

I did not read though all this mess,but from what I did read you do not have your Nile set up right.Most people use a dirt based substrate because it hold the humidity.Humidity is very important to reptiles,and most people do not truly understand the importance of this.When you keep a monitor i a fish tank with a screen top all the heat and humidity rise out the top,now you and to the fact you are using pine shaving for a substrate,witch dose not hold humidity at all.Your monitor will dehydrate very quickly,even if you see him drinking and soaking.

This was written by Dr.Sam Sweet on the importance of humidity and monitors
A couple of recent threads on basking behavior and acclimating newly-acquired monitors have slopped over into comments on cage humidity, and it is not uncommon (especially on other fora) to hear of people soaking their animals to “rehydrate” them. It might be worth considering this as a separate issue, as there seem to be some misconceptions afoot.

Monitors can only acquire water by mouth (from food or by drinking). Unless they drink, soaking does not rehydrate them, as their skins are effectively impermeable to water. Notice that we humans, with a much thinner skin keratin layer, do not bloat from taking a bath. Raising the ambient humidity can reduce the rate of dehydration, but it cannot reverse it.

As I noted in another post, monitors lose body water in feces (not much), by evaporation from their eyes (quite a bit), and by exhaling. Air inhaled by a monitor is almost always cooler than the animal’s body temperature. Even if that inhaled air is saturated (100% rh), the temperature increase will reduce the rh of the air in the lungs, and thus body water will be extracted to bring the lungful of air to saturation at the new temperature. When that air is exhaled, the body water goes with it, either all the way out of the body or at least as far as the nasal chamber. Some desert-adapted monitors (like V. griseus) have recurved nasal passages that may help condense and trap exhaled water vapor, but this is absent in species from the wet tropics, and is never as fancy as the water traps in the noses of many desert mammals.

A monitor basking in a cage is inhaling hot, locally dry air, and losing body water each time it exhales. A monitor resting in a cooler part of the cage, especially in a mostly-enclosed burrow or box or hollow, is inhaling nearly saturated air that is at the same temperature as its body and thus it is not dehydrating as quickly. It is pretty likely that monitors are aware of differences in relative humidity at various potential hiding places within a cage.

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Now when set up in a fish tank with no humidity and low heat(screen tops all the heat rises out too)they become prone to all sorts of elements such as obesity and gout.
Here is something written by Dr.Sweet on gout

The nitrogen comes from the amino acids in proteins, and starts out as ammonia (NH3), which is highly soluble and toxic. That's quickly converted to urea (NH3 NH3) and transported in that form via the bloodstream. Urea gets converted to uric acid (urea urea, so the eqivalent of 4 ammonia molecules) in the kidneys as it is being excreted, or more usually as it arrives in the cloaca. Uric acid crystallizes, and in doing so drops out of solution, allowing the animal to reabsorb the body water needed to keep the urea solution within acceptable limits. Birds do the same thing, whereas mammals (except Dalmatian dogs) excrete urea, but have much fancier kidneys than do birds or reptiles.

When an animal is chronically dehydrated its body fluid volume is reduced, and the concentration of urea solution may become high enough to cause uric acid to form almost anyplace there is a fluid reservoir. The synovial fluid in joints is a classic spot, and creates the gout that pestered your grandma. It can also happen in the kidney tubules, where the physiology is designed to concentrate those liquid wastes. The trouble with uric acid crystals is that they are not very soluble, and also serve as a template for the spontaneous growth of more crystal, so over time the kidneys can get pretty plugged up. In severe cases there are crystal deposits everywhere -- in blood vessels, membranes, you name it. A gouty animal looks all silvery inside on necropsy.

Jason has made an important point that most keepers know (I hope), which is that a number of antibiotics and antifungals that are relatively OK for use in mammals are not OK for reptiles -- they are nephrotoxic, compromising kidney function. That's pretty much an irreversible loss, and can have the same effect as chronic dehydration.

Gout is an insidious problem. You aren't going to see it coming, and by the time an animal has visible symptoms it is pretty late to start fixing things up with the husbandry. Making sure animals have access to water *that they will drink* is probably the number one thing. Lots of monitors will drink from a tub only when it has just been cleaned and refilled -- they'll soak in their own poo water, but they won't drink it. You need to keep an eye on that, as some species are fussier than others. Number two is to provide high humidity, especially in hiding spots, as a way to reduce water loss. That's why deep substrate is good and wire tops and sides are bad

Just because he is doing fine now,doesn't mean he will be ok a few years from now.I understand you want to tame your pet,but you should look into proper monitor husbandry and learn how to set him up properly first them worry about taming.I t always fascinates me that when ever someone get a new monitor,the first question is always how do I tame him.When the first questions should be is he set up right.Many people by baby Niles Evey year and VERY FEW make to there first year and of those few that do make it,they don't make it to there second year,and when you do see the odd adult Nile it is always suffering from some sort of bad husbandry element

Greg

I cringe when I see those photos of "fish tank set-ups"...

How many people recognize the importance of proper Monitor housing? Of those that do, how many of them also understand the importance of humidity ? ? ?

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Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

Love your setup! I see what all these people post about what they deem acceptable for reptiles but in the end it is what the reptile likes that maters most. I posted this origionally to share with people and I am super glad that everyone is talking. There are many aspects to reptile husbandry and are different even for different kinds of monitors. In the case of my nile I keep it real. Africa is not a humid place for the most part unless you are in the congo or some jungle region so for that I say niles come froma dry region but stay around water sources.So I keep my cage dry and provide a big swimming pool. A blackthroat is a different story though.Since they burrow more it is more important to have a soil to burrow extensive tunnels with specific underground humidity to make them feel more at home and be healthy, but I guess my point in all of this is we can learn alot from each other and there are many ways to keep a nile or any reptile to a certian degree and we share our succes in the hopes that it will help someone else but even 2 niles from the same clutch can react differently to confinement and may benefit from different conditions.I am not saying put a nile in cedar. I never said anything like that. You should not have a nile and not even consider it till you have a better understanding of reptile husbandry. However, you can and should experiment if you are comfortable doing so and can adapt that environment till it meets the needs of the animal, don't do anything dangerous but try new things. If throughout history we did not experiment then we would not have the wheel,and still be using stone tools. Sure stone tools work well but I think I might try this new stuff called metal. Don't experiment if you are new to reptiles but if you are not new, it is almost your duty to do so to constantly find new ways to make your reptile experience more sucessful and then others around you. Plus! changing things can keep your monitor intrigued with his environment instead of the same environment every day. There are dry seasons and rainy seasons,,ect. Cedar is bad for many animals not just reptiles. It is actually a carcinogen for humans as well if breathed in, so on a side note don't use cedar chips for anything if you value your life,don't do it. Of course you won't brethin cedar chip but the dust you will. Go ahead look it up, Cedar dust is a carcinogen kind of like smoking but your breathing in the cedar dust in stead of smoke. I knew a wood worker that died of cancer because of cedar dust and just like smoking it can happen to anyone with exposure depending on their own genetic succeptability and exposure amount.Another reason Cedar can be bad is also due to irritation from the oils which are not present in pine.http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_276185.html Pine shavings are not the same but you should be carefull that respiratory problems don't occur from any substrate you use.Allthough it worked fine for my nile it may not work well with a Ball python,you get my point.My nile didn't have any problems with the shavings. The only reason I changed it was because it was more visually appealing to me. I found that a hide box submerged in the substrate is better because it doesn't collapse. There is noon way to keep any animal confined. Sure you shouldn't keep a reptile in a freezer unless you are saving him for thksgiving diner. Peace be with you all