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Picked him up for $60, and eats out of my hand - what do you guys think?

I think you got a killer deal compared to prices i have seen lately. The fact he eats right out of your hand is even better.

just a ew years ago i saw all sorts of Mtn kings for sale around $75-$100 and they did not even sell very quickly. lately there has been a surge from mtn kings.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

It is what it is brother.......

Don't hate.....appreciate! and just HOW MUCH are the fast-eating brooksi morphs going for these days? LOL.

Cascade zonata (natural intergrade)

Hypo-erythristic zonata agalma

Santa Ana zonata pulchra

Sierra San Pedro Martir zonata agalma

Coastal zonata multifasciata

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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Calif Mtn kings are VERY easy to find in the wild when compared to other snakes, including a normal w/c Florida king.

If you are avaliable 5 days this spring i will go out there and show you what i mean.

I don't hate brother. Just an exchange of facts. One cannot find wild Brooks king "morphs" in the wild. That comes from years of captive propogation. But i did find 27 mountain kings in one weekend in Calif ( I think 30 if you count the ones in crevices i could not get to). If it wasn't for the law that Calif has on bag restrictions, which are completly unwarranted, they would not be over $100. Heck in the early 90's they were $50. all over the place and that was still after the restrictions. So much for commercial value.

I know you are working with these things and because of their avliability they are priced right. i have no problem with captive born baby locales fetching higher prices. If they were still $50. they would NOT be as popular because the returns for working with them would not be sufficient to raise and maintain a colony.

That's what happens when you get old. You find yourself rambling about the "good 'ol days" and how cheap things were. I bought my first mountain king at a Santa Monica pet store for $12. in 1972.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I bought my first mountain king at a Santa Monica pet store for $12. in 1972"

Which was about $65.00 dollars in todays market..LOL!

Two older kids wanted to sell me a GIGANTIC almost 9 foot Indigo for $8.00 bucks about that same time too (70-72), but I couldn't come up with the dollar figure then (meaning my mom wouldn't give it to me because of my not so great school grades at the time)..LOL!. It might as well have been $800.00 to me back then.

Boy!!,...do times change..HAHAHAA!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Boy!!,...do times change..HAHAHAA!

yes and the older you get the more recent it seems. For instance what prices were 20 years ago seems like it was last year.

We all become like our parents and the more you say that you won't, the more it seaks up on you when you get older.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Many of the things my parents "tried" preaching to me seemed like just a big load of garbage from some old-time "squares". Now I find myself thinking along those very same lines that they did, and the kids now(us back then), don't have a freakin clue about many of the fundamentally important things that they "should" know and be concerned about, but definitely aren't. All that matters to most kids now days is some big chrome "spinner" rims on their low-rider and a 5000 watt stereo to rattle the bolts off of it. Yes, very impressive for sure!!!

Life is very ironic indeed, only you don't realize just how much until you are older..LOL!

~Doug (the old-timer)
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Hey Rainer,

coincidentally I am heading out to L.A. in several weeks along with my daughter to take in some serious z time in several mountain areas. Wanna join us? The more the merrier! First week of April. Just don't annoy me or reke of body odor.

As for large numbers? I can see that with Sierra multicincta or Laguna pulchra even, but it's not a blanket statement that should be derived from what you said. Not all z's are created equal Rainer, you know this. Well, at least you should anyway.

As for cost? Yeah, i was stumped when you called me like 3 years ago asking for $50 pulchra. Dude, you think I'm gonna plug $50 for a snake that is not only top notch but also takes a seriously concerted effort to get feeding voluntarily on thawed pinks? So you mean to tell me that if you had to struggle potentially for months utilizing a varied repertoire of techniques and spending precious time in doing so, you're gonna sell 'em for pennies. Then what up with that foursome of pulchra you had for like $1200 last year? Rainer, my man, you run hot and cold like some of the other cats in this place.

As for cost demand, you mean to tell me that a brooksi morph (which may take years to create, but gradually over time and certainly with lots of expenses regarding food, etc..) can fetch hundreds of dollars but a zonata can not?

You want to be compensated for your time and efforts, and I know how you like to be at the top o' the pyramid when it comes to such things. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all, as some DO enjoy reaping the fruits of their labors and I don't think you're an exception. But I also don't think you're the altruistic snake breeder who chants about only having fun and giving snakes away and not worrying about the overhead costs. Hell, I'm sure brooksi cost WAY WAY WAY more to feed in such large numbers......but you can justify a $250 man-made brooksi morph that took years to create and eats practically outta the egg but not justify busting one's a$$ getting z's to get feeding so that the receiver has a generally worry-free experience?
I don't understand that, and why you keep targeting specifically z's I don't get either. Why not pick on the $500 marble-frosted cream cheese corn???

So in the end, if your rationalization that a peanut butter and jelly roll, feeding-right-out-of-the-egg-that-took-8-years-to-make-brooksi CAN command such a price (as you do), but selling a zonata that required an inordinate amount of time potentially over many months, utilizing a wide array of feeding techniques and acquiring various lizards to scent with, and may even have to be concerned with over-wintering until the next spring so that the reciver can have a trouble-free experience....is worth 50 bucks....now that's a hypocrite mentality if I've ever heard one.

The year: 2010. The high-end zonatas that took months to get onto plain thawed pinks: Definitely over 50 bucks. The rude awakening: Priceless.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

when i called you a couple years ago it was about pulchra and you wanted $250. and i thought they would be about $100., not $50. The pulcra as you know are very easy to find in numbers. So stated in the previous post so i am not blanketing all zontata. for instance the coastal are hard to locate in any numbers and even if you know what you are doing, finding one in a day is about as good as it gets.

second, I think you read over my post...i did say you should get the money you are asking for that is what is making them more popular. After all who wants to knock themselves out producing $50. snakes?

And what is a "Jelly roll"? I have to use that one when something new from the jelly comes up, lol.

And i am not picking on you jerry. I just think you read over my posts with a certain mindset.

If you are heading out in April to find Z's make sure you check temps as they like sunny days with highs in the 55-60 range. Lows can be much lower than that. It may be a bit early but every year the seasons come at a bit different times. if you wait until mid-late may that is the time to go to the Sierras as those are the easiest to find in numbers. i hope you don't risk going after the pulchra cause it is not fun looking over your back for F&G.

I reccomend you travel in May so you can see other snakes like boas and deserts species. you can day herp for Z's and nightdrive for the other stuff all in one day. the close together lifezones in calif are amazing. You can experience so much in one day if you wait rather than going for just one thing.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Market prices are set by those who are at the top of the pyramid. Also by supply and demand. Ball pythons (icckkk...) hold their prices way longer simply because of their output -- small clutches with high demand. The larger the production, the quicker the fall in price along with the dynamic of someone either wanting to be lazy and just make a quick sale therefore cutting prices drastically or someone on an ego trip thinking the snakes are simply not worth a given market price because it's their way of thinking. So be it.

Have I sold a zonata for 125? Sure. Has it happened? Maybe 4 times in the last 4 years as these were the true exceptions: eating right out of the egg. It is what it is. You want a z for 50 bucks? Okay, take it out of the egg. You want a rare locality high-end z for 50 bucks? LOL. Ain't gonna happen. Not with me anyway. Too much effort and time. But you wouldn't know that kind of work these days with easy feeders, eh? Why don't I send you a fresh baby pulchra this fall as a project and see how ya do -- finding z's in the field, depending on the spp, CAN be quite a chore especially at high elevations, rattlers just around the bend, and the luck of the weather......but getting babies to feed under captive conditions? Can be just as tough on the nerves. I'm not sure when the last time was when you bred any zonata, but let me send you a hatchling pulchra and start the timer. And when you have it completely on unscented, thawed pinks, let's see what you'll want for it after the time and effort. LOL. You traded last year's adult pulchra and you wanted to sell 'em for HOW MUCH? C'mon Rainer, just stop it brother. I mean really.....you keep diggin' on z prices here and there as if they were a market-flooded hobby Hondo.....there's no comparison and I find it annoyong that you do. With the ease of Florida kings breeding and feeding I find it a raping-of-sorts that a licorice-light-bulb brooksi would go for hundreds of dollars. Again, it's all about being hypocritical.......and as much as i feel about brooksi prices, I don't put it on blast out of respect for you and Zenny.

Please do join me in April if you can. Although we agree to disagree, we can still join in on a day or two of some mountain madness.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Jerry,
You are still reading over my posts. most of what you said i already answered and cleared up .

Since you are not reading and responding to my posts i am going to assume you are not reading them and so i will stop replying.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

LOL......okay.......
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

If these pulchra you speak of do not prefer pinks as food, why spend so much time getting them to?

Why do people climb Mt. Everest? Because it's there. Is it impossible? No. Just not everyone can accomplish it.

Same with some herps, in this case, snakes. Florida kings are by far the easiest along with corns and gophers. Others such as zonata, temporalis, scarlets, Pales, etc., are not the easiest at all. But those that have greater willpower and frustration tolerance tend to be more successful in working with the "tougher" critters. There is success in the end, but it takes time. And patience. Hope this helps.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Fliptop,

It is not ALL pulchra that are that hard to get onto pinks. i have owned and bred many pulchra that were no problem getting on pinks.

It is like this with some of the florida kings locales as well. Rare but there are lines out there that want snakes as food.. Some Florida king babies refuse mice and want scented with snake (like water snake scent or gound snake). It all depends on what area the breeders stock originated from.

With the pulchra Jerry has it may be the San Diego stock which resides in rock crevices not affording many mice and lizards there mainstay. I worked with Santa Monica mtn pulchra stock which has no problem getting on mice.. In the Santa monicas these pulcrha utilize different habitat. Because they are close to the ground or underground (fossorial) they tend to come across more mice and therefore babies from this locale eat mice as neonates.

It is the same as other locales of calif Mtn kings. it all depends on the stock one has. Just like florida kings , eastern kings etc.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

This is true to a certain degree -- by and large what area they are from can afford some ease in getting them to feed. My easiest feeders? Sierra zonata hands-down. Why? Their indigenous food prey is a variety other than lizards, so I typically experience less challenge with the Sierra snakes -- but again, they ARE zonata and it's not a blanket statement by all means. Most want and respond to lizards.

As for the pulchra, I work with several ranges and I find the San Diego form the toughest of the lot. Takes at least several months to get them voluntarily feeding on unscented. But in the end, the effort is SO SO worth it.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

VERY, attractive!
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Todd Hughes

Beautiful! And a helluva deal too. Nice score.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

I think I like. Good stuff, man. Z's are cool.

reako45