Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just noticed an add in the classifieds for a pair of temporalis females at $1500. One striped, one ringed, both beauties, very healthy, but from two different localities. Just wondering how rare is this animal to obtain and why so much? Anyone?

Also, what are the distinguishing characteristics between the two, just the color as in the photos?

Thanks,
Roger

One that is aberrantly patterned like that is EXTREMELY uncommon, thus the much higher price, simple as that really. Supply and demand governs everything in this world without exception.

You ain't gonna find one like THAT in any pet store, so if you want high-end, uncommon stuff, you have to pay more for the privilege of having it.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

And the fact that they are not tiny hatchlings and are already well established females ready to breed soon demands a much higher price as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Temporalis, or coastal plains as they are commonly called, are the true "milkheads" milksnake. They are rare in nature(getting more rare every year)and they arent "commercially viable" as the babies require more patience and expertise than most any other. Add to that the variability from locality to locality and the fact that only matched locality animals or morphs demand the higher price. Most every adult is basically a hand-reared snake so they are almost never for sale.....and adult females available without HAVING to buy the additional male...only more rare. As adults they have no rivals IMHO, and if you have matching males of either locale you could surely make the monies back on those females in less than 2 months. Charles must be nuts,lol.

Few hobbyist work with the smaller forms of NA milks due to the amount of work required to establish neonates. Add to this that coastals are much more rare or less commonly found in the wild and you have a recipe for an expensive little snake. Now take the fact that these are young females and the current owner is not highly motivated to move them and you've largely accounted for the higher price.

My personal opinion is that the market for coastals has been damaged by years of prestige marketing where high prices were charged along with the admonishment (read challenge) that this were for advanced keepers. Noenate coastals were sold for a premium before they were established and a lot of people failed to successfully raise them. This left a bitter taste in many a breeder's mouth and many continue to avoid working with the form as a result.

None of this need be the case. Coastal neonates may not be self-starters in captivity like Hondurans but neither are they difficult if you are willing to devote a little TLC to get them stated or get them from a breeder who is willing to do so before offering them for sale. Coastals are certainly less difficult to start than alterna or zonata which both enjoy good market positions so there is no reason why they are not more widely available.

In my humble opinion a fair market price for an established neonate coastal is 75 - 125 based on current availability. Add in some good locality data and some will be willing to pay double that. Established adults generally go for double the cost of neonates and lone ready to breed females might justify another doubling in price. Based on this I would expect to pay little more than 500 for an adult female unless it was a spectacular specimen. Then the price is whatever I can come up with.

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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Tony, you have been as successful and consistent as any coastal breeder, congrats. But I point out that it is still the time restraints that are put on establishing the babies that limit the numbers even successful breeders can produce. And you are so right, the numbers of NA milk breeders has diminished with all the other available morphs that have become available in recent years. Of course I still dabble hoping they make a comeback,lol, and the simple fact that they are being regulated everywhere should increase not decrease the interest, right?

Farmers raise cattle for a whole year and if at the end of that year they net $100/head they are doing good. I spend a max 5 minites a week extra on neonate coastal above what I would for other self starting snakes. This effort runs for about 6 to 7 weeks before 90% are feeding on f/t pinks all by themselves and are ready to go. When you're getting 400 for a hypo or 250 for a nice locality animal that is pretty good return on the time you invested.

I got three clutches form my coastals last year about 9 weeks apart and only have a handfull of hold overs from last year. Funny thing is I put them down for a break this witer and brought them up a couple of weeks ago and everyone started eating the first attempt. Meal 5 is being fed tonight. Hope to move them out prior to brigning the adults up!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

those temporalis i got from you should go this spring....i've added a t. thompson complete stripe female to the group.....here comes a hypo striped......also added some of big jeff's nantucket giant green triangulum for size and more color variety..... I'M KIDDING.....BUT i've been told that quite a number of temporalis were recorded in undisclosed locations in an undisclosed state this past season...i don't know if they were the same animals being re-recorded....

I'll have what he's havin!

all 'round.....and keep 'em coming......

Tony/Jeff,

Thanks for the good input. I must confess that I'm a lurker. Been around the hoppy for a very long time, and generally find forums to be full of.....interesting people, who write posts that tend to make me....well, a lurker. Nice to see such thoughtful, respectful responses. Very well received.

Anywise....I've been out of touch with the hobby for a while and I didn't understand the pricing I saw in the post. $1500 for two snakes seemed astronomically high too me, but then again, I have been out of touch for a few years. If these prices are real, then I guess it's time to fire up my temporalis group and start breeding them again.

Do you know of any web site like Jerry Kruzes', which is excellent by the way, but for Temporalis? Obviously I have to claim mine to be generics, but I would still like to know if there's an easy way to tell locality differences. My male does look quite different then the girls...so I'm wondering why.

Anywise, thanks again for the thoughtful response.
Roger

That I'm aware of there isn't any such site though you might find some good examples of coastals by state at:

http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

I threw my stiped line temps together like 10 minutes ago....
.......and the amel nelsons'....and a pair of campbells'......
the St Mary temps aren't quite ready...she is really blue.....

......good luck all.....hopefully I get something....first time they ever met.....she dropped 8 duds last Feb and 9 duds last August....NEVER had a snake drop 2 clutches 6 months apart before......most time between clutches before is like 3 months or so.......(yes normally it's 2 around here also...)....

....
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......JY

.....nice answer.....I liked it......it fits.......same sentiments on z's.......hope the garden is well.......
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

There has been much progress in the garden this summer. Which explains the blisters on my hands and the lack for breeders removed from hibernation!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

BLISTERS ON YOUR HANDS????.....what the heck is going on down there????

nearly to the letter with Tony.

-Cole