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Rainer mentioned in an earlier post that something about the anerys screams Northern FLA. I'm guessing it's because of their lack of speckling (?), but there's something eastern king looking in their color (or lack thereof) to me. SO, some of the more southern easterns I've seen posted have some yeller or red in them, whereas some of the northern ones seem straight up black and white. Are those considered anerythristic?

Thanks!

I know years ago with the notorious "Chuck the snake man" from Md, we saw many different "colors" of easterns. Beyond the typical whites and yellows he had one that was BLUE, now looking back it would have to be anerythristic. I also got a amazing king from him as a wc adult. It was a large BROWN speckled female from a island in VA. It produced normal babies but looking back I would bet this one was a HYPO of some sort.
I love the colors available now in kings that we call man-made. Goini produce some nice oranges, but I have a cross that is holding PINK into adulthood now. Its only with this 3rd color that you can really see if there is a morph present or not.

I have seen hatchling NC easterns that looked anerythristic to me. It may not be an uncommon trait, but considering that a lot of easterns are straight up black and white, it is probably difficult to detect in adults.

I hatched a couple Anery kings last year from my Levy County, FL line. They are not pure Eastern kings, some from that area look just like Lake Okeechobee kings. This line is completely unrelated to anything else in captivity; I caught the adults myself. Unfortunately, both Anery kings were deformed, one much worse than the other. It could be weak genetics, or bad luck. The rest of the clutch came out real healthy. We'll see what happens this year.

Anery:

Normal:

The "Anerythristic" FL king lines look just like Lake Okeechobee kings, like the snake pictured in your post. As you know, dark kings can be found in Miami-Dade County, where you're supposed to find the lighter "Brooksi" morph.

By the way, how's that "Black Brooksi" you got from me?

It is not just the pattern of the anerys but the shape of their head and other things that say Northern floridana.

they act different too.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

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Northern Florida is probably a stretch. There is almost nothing as far as floridana in captivity originating from Northern Florida. 98% of non-brooksi FL kings are still South Florida animals, from South of Lake Okeechobee. There are a few from the Tampa Bay area (Central Florida), like sulfurs, but that's it.

yes i know that. i had GA re-write the laws on keeping Florida kings because they don't come anywhere near the GA border (per krysco DNA thesis on getula).

What i meant was further north and not NORTH Florida. My bad.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Hi,

I am really not a Fla king guy, so I don't presume to know how far north they go before one starts to see the eastern influence. But while living in Daytona 20 years ago, I had the privelige of seeing a "brooksi" type Fla that was on display at the St. Augustine Alligator Farm that was collected in the St. Aug area. I spoke with several employees about the animal and they said that while they weren't common, people still brought in pale Fla kings to the farm from time to time because they didn't recognize the pale animals as Fla kings.

Will

FL kings are pretty uncommon in Central/North Florida, but are still hanging on in some coastal regions. If I get a chance to visit the alligator farm (last time was 10 years ago), I'll have to ask them about the kings in that area. They should be Eastern/Florida intergrades.

The kings in Jacksonville, FL are Eastern/Florida intergrades. Intergrades range in to extreme Southeast Georgia. They may not be recognized officially, but they are in the parts of the Okefenokee Swamp, and parts Charlton and Camden Counties.

He WAS awesome. Problem is, for space/time/etc. reasons I have to limit my collection. I've allowed myself one pair of Florida kings, and because I absoluely dig the ghosts made with the anery gene, I ended up using him as a partial trade for a male hypo.

Lookwise, the snake was fantastic (I favor the darker natural FLA kingsnakes). Temperament- and appetitewise, he was fantastic.

I decided to go the morph route simply because I've never done that. My anery female fulfills my visual appeal for the dark, and the hypo IS beautiful, but moreso allows me to try my hand at creating something.

Awesome work, and I envy your ability to find them in the wild (hopefully I'll have such luck in the future).

Hi,

Some individuals within populations of easterns from the northern part of the range such as NJ and MD are by definition anyerthristic/axanthic because they lack all traces of yellow/red pigment. However, these traits aren't recessive in nature and can only be predictably reproduced when both parents possess the phenotype. It is more of a polygenetic type of inheritance.

Will

Not sure I agree. Individuals certainly can have yellow(if not orange)from any locale so I dont accept that definition. Proving it is like that "tree falling in the forest/noise" thing...Good luck with that,lol. Sometimes the key here is other morphs, maybe a normal and a anery look alike but the albino and snow might look different...

Hi Jeff,

I am not talking about populations, but certain individuals within (most notably northern) populations. I am also not trying to impy that these snakes are morphs, they are just natural variations that lack yellow. The fact that they do lack all traces of yellow means to me that they possess some form of axanthism (if we are going to apply labels). Just my opinion.

Will

oops, that should read "I am not trying to imply" , not impy.

Will, I think our eyes cant see diminished yellow but a morph replaces it. The genetics are likely there to increase the yellow in variation even in northern populations. I dont think you see much diversity in captivity because there arent many founder animals from that area.

Hi Jeff,

I have NJ babies that hatch out with a great deal of red and yellow and I get the black and white ones in the same clutch. Actually, the ones with red/yellow usually fade to white by their second year anyway. I guess you are right in that there may be some yellow that is present, but it is just so faint that I can't pick it out, or it concealed by the contrasting black.

Regardless, many of these kings (in my collection anyway) do not have any visible yellow in adulthood and I often describe them as having an anyer/axanthic appearance (which I believe that they have). They certainly have far less yellow/orange in adulthood than the recognized anyerthristic (sp?) corns or axanthic ball pythons, unrecognizable amounts actually.

I'm not trying to start a morph or mutation debate, I'm just calling them as I see 'em. The snakes that I'm refering to have no visible yellow, I describe them with the term that most fits. It is clearly not the same as the anyer/axanthic recessive mutiations common these days in herpetoculture, but then again, these terms weren't coined specifically to describe the color of reptiles, that is just the context in which reptile keepers understand them.

Will