Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No discussion on captive varanids is complete without taking into consideration the environment in which it is kept. Temperatures, humidity levels, and various environmental factors all have a direct and profound effect on the way these animals behave.

Many many people new to keeping monitors frequent these message boards believing they have "tame" animals who enjoy being petted for the same reason you mentioned in the thread below. Monitors have various ways of coping with stress, one of which closing their eyes and remaining still when handled. I have seen this behavior in both monitors being handled by humans and monitors being subdued by a dominant cage mate. New keepers, lacking understanding of varanid behavior interpret this as enjoyment simply because they have seen pet mammals such as dogs act in a simmilar manner when stroked. The opposit is in fact true as mentioned above. Most of these animals seem docile simply because they are not provided with sufficient basking temperatures, humidity levels and other basic necessities. Unfortunately, these animals never last more than a few years, most don't even live to see one year while their keepers argue vehemently that their monitors are perfectly healthy and their husbandry practices are fine.

Monitors are not social animals. They do not crave the attention of their keepers and do not seek the company of others of their kind in the wild for any reason other than the propogation of their species. Though the intelligence levels and problem solving skills rival those of predatory social mammals such as wolves, they lack the emotional complexity pack animals display.

Raising a nile to full adult size and keeping it healthy long term requires a level of dedication few seem to posess. They require a huge amount of work and space not to mention cash. Even the most tractable of niles will quickly revert back to it's wild, defensive behaviors when for whatever reason it's keepers ceases to spend a good amount of time on a daily basis with the animal. This fact in and of itself proves that these animals are never really tame in the same sense as domesticated animals such as dogs that have been bred for thousands of years to be so.

This particular animal is 7'4" and weighs in at nearly 30 lbs. He does not like to be handled and I was only able to do so because he had been resting in a cool area of the cage prior to the photo being taken. Were he reuunin at full speed, I would have had to use excessive force to subdue him and likely would have sustained serious lacerations from his powerfull claws and possibly a nasty bite. He does not fear me because I respect his boundaries and rarely pick him up.

Great post, Roger.

One question I have. I have seen water monitors as well as green tree monitors that seem to have no problems being handled and interacted with. For example there is someone on this forum with a pair of green trees and they seem to have no problems interacting with her.. Also when you see Water like the one owned by Jay at prehistoric pets that just cruses around the store. Cant those be considered tame, tolerant, or highly trackable?

Just curious?

Thanks,
Ed

"when you see Water like the one owned by Jay at prehistoric pets that just cruses around the store. Cant those be considered tame, tolerant, or highly trackable? "

Ed,

What you saw at Prehistoric Pets was an adult Water monitor left to roam the a store in California. Give that monitor some heat in an enclosure with 130F basking area and it's a different story.

Tame, tolerant and tractable have three entirely different meanings. Have a look:

Tame: correct by punishment or discipline, tone down: make less strong or intense; soften, not wild; domestic, mild, well-behaved, the attribute of having been domesticated.

Tolerant: showing respect for the rights or opinions or practices of others, the power or capacity of an organism to tolerate UNFAVORABLE environmental conditions, The ability to endure pain or hardship.

Tractable: easily managed (controlled or taught or molded). with compliance or docility.

Monitors are not tame animals. They are wild through and through. There is no such thing as a 'tame' Monitor. The keeper may love their monitor but understand that is a one-way road. No monitor seeks out companionship and/or love with a human.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes good sense!

Can you entertain me a little and explain some of the differences and similarities with Retics? I see them as a very powerful, intelligent (for a snake), and wild. They are very food motivated and can be overly aggressive at times. However I consider Both my current tics as docile, traceable, and tolerable. They are very solitary animals. But over time, patience and a little blood donating, you can make these animals realize that you are in no way a threat. Through repetition and regular practice you can avoid most feeding mistakes. Once my snakes are out of their environment I never have issues with aggression, fear, or any of those potential dangerous feelings..

I know accident happen and I know what Im working with.. I just understand my snakes far better than I do these monitors and I was hoping someone might feel like breaking it down for me. I have done TONS of reading soon. And am just trying to figure out the key differences are.

Again I am not trying to say these animals are similar in any way I am just using tics as a comparison cause thats what I understand the best...

Thanks in advance!

Hello Ed,
You are a snake guy recently into monitors, so let's stick to snakes for now. Retics are massive, relatively sedentary, prone to nocturnal habits and are active/ambush predators... They tolerate a fair amount of play handling from their keepers with little or no ill affect as long as their husbandry is maintained at a peak and they are well fed. Now, let's view for a moment the genus Ahaetulla. A relatively active arboreal snake. A diurnal sight hunter with a minute body mass and rapid metabolic rate compared to a retic. Now you entertain me...: Would you and could you play handle any of the Ahaetulla genus in captivity the way you do your retics? Why? If you did, would you expect that animal to feed regularly and thrive even if your husbandry was spot on...? Why? Is the routine practice of handling any snake following a feeding considered a good practice? I have snakes that you can do that with at times but is it considered a "good husbandry practice" to do so? Research these questions and answer them and you will "see" the answer clearly... Best to You Ed- Mike S
PM me when you get a chance.

Very Good analogy and I can def see where you are coming from and that makes great sense. Regarding Ahaetulla genus I have zero experience with that genus so I really cant speak on it. I I do however get your point of them being fragile flighty and spooked easily. Thats makes a lot of sense to me. And I certainly would never expect to handle them the same way. That being said there are not many snakes I have worked with that dont calm down, (some examples being Carpets, GTP, even amazons.. Dont get me wrong you said it right the first time, I certainly dont handle them the same way, but I am able to interact with them enough to show them that I am not to be feared and that over time they will realize that I respect their boundaries. I realize again these are different from Ahaetulla but just a reference. It is certainly not good practice to hold a snake right after a meal, for a few reasons. The most important is the risk of regurge, however if the snake does not get agitated or stressed out by the experience the snake has no reason to regurge. The other aspect is that it takes a lot of energy to digest. So if your snake is frantic it will be wasting the engery it needs to use to digest.

Again Mike I certainly get your points I just feel like anything is possible with the right understanding and effort. Just trying to understand the mind of the monitors.

thanks!

Good post, Mike.

The differences in husbandry between ANY snake (Retics are no different)and ANY varanid are HUGE. If you need somebody to explain the differences to you then you just don't understand Snake and/or Monitor husbandry.

What are the key differences between Coyote's and Lions? It doesn't matter one bit anyhow.

The whole Retic/Monitor comparison is completely off-topic but I'll give my two cents this one time and then I'll leave it alone. I've owned Retics and have a couple friends with 18 ft females. You are kidding yourself if you think a large Retic would hesitate, even for a second, striking and wrapping you up for potential dinner if it gets the chance.

You got one thing right man: Retics are not afraid of you (especially a "big" one).

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Some people just want to envision wild Monitor lizards as tame domesticated animals no matter what you tell them.

WRC1228 I could not have said any more that I understand if this is off topic and I also said I realize they are nothing alike I was simply using them as a comparison.

Regarding the tics behavior. Have you ever spent 100 of hours with any tic, or any snake? If so you would know that they are very traceable with the proper effort and knowledge. I have yet to be bitten, or even struck at out of the cage. I completely understand they are instinctual, and accidents happen.. I also Be sure to have a spotter if I am handling anything over 10 feet. And your statement about being biten and wrapped by a retic although is completely possible. With a snake that has been handled and cared for properly it the exception not the rule. Ask any retic breeder, collector, or handler with experience.

I am simply trying to undertand what seperates a monitor lizard from almost any other species of animal..

thanks,
Ed

Ohh yea, they definately have housing considerations to deal with and you really need to be a handy man to deal with them and their housing, ie,, building enclosures which is really the best because you can tailor make them for the animal. Safety is a big concern as well. They have the ability to defend themselves and will if there is something they don't like. Not a monitor suited for many keepers. People should mainly keep monitors like Ackies. That still doesn't even give you an Idea of what a nile can be like, so its really bad to say "starter" to some degree. Your niles are awesome and its good to see you have had so much success with them. I think that they are definately underestimated by many people. They get something like a bearded dragon and have it a while or and think they know what it would take to care for a nile, especially when some crappy pet sore says they will be fine in a 10 or 20 gallon tank for a while. And yes, they do tell people they will tame down which is most often not a chance, especially with an uneducated keeper. I feel bad that they have become exploited but can and obviously for the right keeper make a great addition to their hobby, ect. They have been under and oversold to just anyone for the most part, like big constrictors to some degree. They look cute but the reality is another person living in your house with a big appetite and a quite willfull and agressive attitude depending on the conditions. If most people saw an angry adult nile up close they might think twice before getting such a cheap cute baby lizard

Sorry, forgot the rest of the environment. Yes, the environment is 100% necessary for correct health both mentally and physically for the animal just like any animal and they can like you say cope and just close their eyes. This is different though in my case and does need to be watched by at all times though. Mine is quite active and expecially loves swimming. True, they are not social animals so they dont bond like a dog would. In reptile terms there is no hierarchy other than dominance or fight flight for the most part but this too is something very important to understand when dealing with any reptile.I also feel it necessary to address nutrition.... Many keepers feed bad food to a monitor and they can and do become morbidly obeise. Lack of nutrition from whole foods and fatty food consumption leads to the observation of depression or a relaxed monitor when he is really slowly dieing. Their metabolism and nutritional requirements are much different than mammals so I don't feed those kinds of food to my monitor. I mainly feed fish, eggs mice, rats and any other whole foods that are monitor size. That way I know they get the calcium and other nutrients they get or at least as close as they can get to the wild. So I have a trim but thick monitor that likes to climb around and swim. I have a hide box built into the enclosure that he uses sometimes but sometimes he sleeps in the water. They really have to have a big area for swimming and they love to deficate in the water so your engineering skills have to be good to deal with constantly moving fresh water to a large tank basin or whatever they swim in.

Mantafish,

You missed the point of his post. It was directed at 'other keepers'. It was attention: Mantafish.

Will you ever change your husbandry practices (for the better)?

Mantafish, what I'm really getting at is I am curious about the specifics of your own personal husbandry practices. For, example how much and how often do you feed the animal. Does the animal have access to any kind of thermal gradient (range of temperatures) and if so what are the exact temperatures within the enclosure? What do you use for substrate and how deep is it? Is there any height in the enclosure and if so, do you provide fixtures for it to climb on?

All of the above are major factors which affect the way your animal behaves.

Most people I know who go to college are proud of it. You on the other hand went to a university and you don't state which one. Then you come out not knowing how to spell dying. Kind of hard to believe.

You say these animals aren't for everyone, but someone who can't spell dying is keeping one.

That is a stunning animal. What I woudln't give to be able to keep the big monitors (niles, waters, blackthroats)...man that is something else!
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
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