Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys.
I´m not really a morph guy , but is there any milk morph you can mate with a non morph or het, and get vissible morph babys? A dominant gene? Or would all the babys only be het for that morph?

Hope you can figure out what i mean.

Thanks

Jonas

I think your talking about the Crazy Hondurans?

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

The Guy who produced them doesn't even really know what is truely going, on but I had to get a pair, lol.

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

LOL....sorry...the second one just looks like a hondo...

.........I know...some people like different some people like regular banded types....

...good luck....
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......JY

No it's a Crazy Hondo but I had to get the poor man's selection, lol! The more Crazy ones go for $100.00 each! But they should have some super nice babies. They will throw Crazy babies even if bred to a normal, in the first generation so breeding two of these together should get some nice babies. At least that is whay I'm hoping for. By the way these pics don't do them justice. They are stunning in real life.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Sorry, 1,000.00 each my bad.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

LOL.....duh.....I thought I read crazy pueblan....?...why I don't know....then wondered why it looked hondo...
my stupid.......

.....hondos.....hmmmm.....I like some of the striped ones....I own a pair of hypos ,male looks albut extreme.......and I got a trio of tri color het VP and hypos at a show awhile ago....not sure if I'll keep them....they are nice though.....

...good luck.......go for a perfect stripe and a totally patternless one.....!.....

..
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......JY

Well these are supposed to have a unique gene which does not behave like most Aberrents. They were produced by Guy Clark and like I said the gene is very strong and will produce carzies even when bred to a normal. I got just about the cheapest ones he had. Some are full stripes and reverse stripes and everything in between. Here is his myspace with pics of some>
Link

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

I have a BUNCH of Guy Clarks crazy line Hondo's...he lives 10 minutes from me. I breed mostly Crazy to Crazy, but on the occasions when I wanted to breed Albino into the line, I got maybe 10% visual the first clutch. I have Norm Damm aberrants and several others...its hit and miss with aberrants.
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

Thanks, I'm glad I got the pair then.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

All Albino,anery,hypo,etc genes are recessive. Pattern mutations cant be considered dominant, only that the pattern will usually be more of a 50%-50% within variable limits. Increasing these variables increases pattern anomalies, as the striped Coastal Plains can attest. $1000 for a Honduran, that sounds like a wise investment,LMAO!

Wow this place is full of the kind of people I would love to hang out with. NOT! But I did not pay 1,000 for mine thank you I got the POOR man's selection. I'm begining to think everyone hits the sauce or the bong before they post on this site...Maybe it's just me?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My love for Hondurans is well known. Whats the matter, hurt your little fuzzy feelings with a joke? HAHA

I thought guitar players had big egos.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Spells joke, I think you got ego down though.

Ha ha
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

h -o -n -d- o ....$25 last show.....I fealt bad so I got three from the guy for 120$....he was selling them all wholesale at the end...he said...$25 later for one guy .....and these were 75 and up hondos....I saw them on the site later that day...

....o-v-e-r-p-r-o-d-u-c-e-d-
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......JY

Right now what isn't over produced? Let's face it the Market is in a huge slump partly due to the Economy! Those who endure and hold fast will survive but many guys who think they are gonna get rich by buying a few snakes and breeding them will soon find it's gonna cost a lot more than they'll ever get back in return. I've been keeping and breeding snakes since I was a kid and I've yet to make any real money from them I just like it1 I don't make money from playing guitar either but I still do it.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Aberrancies are a line bred trait not a morph, and where did the guitar player comment come from lol?

I play guitar and when you get a bunch of guitar players together, everyone knows more then the next guy, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

See, I never have that problem when I jam with other players. That's because I'm the best, of course!

Ah you made me laugh1 But can you play Eruption, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Imagine if Jeff played guitar? He would be beaten mercilessly...
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.2 T pos Sinaloan

Ok thanks
What if i pair two tangerines that are 100% het for albino, what would the babies look like?
Would there be albinos and normal looking babies? And would the normal ones be het for albino?

Thanks again

Jonas

"What if i pair two tangerines that are 100% het for albino, what would the babies look like?
Would there be albinos and normal looking babies? And would the normal ones be het for albino?"

The theoretical offspring from that pairing(if they are not het for other recessive traits) will be......

25% albino(amel)
50% het albino
25% normal..........in reality, this can(and does)vary considerably with any individual clutch.

But since you cannot tell which one's are het for the trait by looking at them, ALL are statistically considered to be 2/3 chance(66%) for being het for albino.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thats great thank you.
Just two more questions.
If i pair two albinos the babies will all be albino right?
And what about pairing a het albino to an albino?

Jonas

Two albinos will give you all albino babies. An albino and a het should give you half albinos and half hets, I believe.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

.......statistic-wise that is!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks Doug. I never worked with albinos much. I think the more natural colors were prettier. But the albino milk snakes are pretty spectacular
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Normal type animals are cool as well!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Man those are some nice Hondos! How do you get more than one pic on a post? I haven't figured that out yet.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

When I said "statistic-wise, I mean that you could get a slightly different ratio of those two phenotypes, but ALL the normal looking offspring will definitely be 100% het for amel.

You guys probably knew that already, but just wanted to make sure my post was understood correctly.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks thats all i needed to know.

Jonas

You asked what you would get if you bred a Tangerine Het Albino to another Tangerine Het Albino... The correct answer would be 25% Tangerine het for nothing, 50% Tangerine het albino, 25% Tangerine Albino.
The Tangerine trait will be carried on and there would be no "normal" colored babies. The problem is that you will not be able to tell the Tangerine het snakes from the Tangerine het for nothing snakes.
At best, all you can do is call any Tangerine babies produced as "Possible Het for Albino".

Good Luck with your animals.

I think Doug said this already?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

He stated there would be normal colored offspring, which there would not be.

Tangerines are not what one would consider "normal".

What would you consider "normal" coloration? Please clarify

Tricolor and tangerine phenotypes ARE indeed normal wild-type color variants, not recessive mutations or morphs.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

......and any variation intermediate between tricolor and tangerine is also a "normal" phenotype.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Wile tangerine's can be considered a "morph" technically, they are still a normal variation. And a breeding of two tangerines doesn't guarantee all offspring will be tangerines either. Just the probability is greater that they will tend to be more of a tangerine coloration. This all greatly depends on the previous lineage that comprised the two tangerine parents, and what their coloration was. This is what has to be considered for "the correct answer".

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>He stated there would be normal colored offspring, which there would not be.
>>
>>Tangerines are not what one would consider "normal".

Lots of us think they are. Both tricolors and tangerines are found in the wild, which makes them "normal" which is usually synonymous with "wild type". It's the wild type or "normal" that's dominant to all the other color morphs, not tangerine or tricolor.

To clarify my--well, mr wallace's--earlier comment, yeah, MOST of the babies from tang x tang will be tang. But there's no guarantee they'll all be. imho.

ditto once again Mr."tricolor albino"!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I do not keep Hondos and didn't account for non hypo tangerines. I have become so accustomed to seeing tangerine hypos I forgot there were non hypos as well.

Thanks for clarifying that.

That's right, now days people are so used to seeing so many hypos in the hobby, it is almost taken for granted that they are very likely hypo's as opposed to normal tangerines.

Here are a couple normal tangerine from the early 90's that have zero captive-bred recessive genetics. They are "het" for absolutely nothing.

Note the substantial dark scale tipping even though these were still fairly "clean" specimens for the time.

~Doug

and a few normal(non-hypo)tangerines I produced just recently, although they are double het for different mutations.



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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>You asked what you would get if you bred a Tangerine Het Albino to another Tangerine Het Albino... The correct answer would be 25% Tangerine het for nothing, 50% Tangerine het albino, 25% Tangerine Albino.
>>The Tangerine trait will be carried on and there would be no "normal" colored babies. The problem is that you will not be able to tell the Tangerine het snakes from the Tangerine het for nothing snakes.
>>At best, all you can do is call any Tangerine babies produced as "Possible Het for Albino".
>>
>>Good Luck with your animals.

If I may gently suggest it, sometimes two tangerines can produce tricolors or intermediate animals. ditto for tricolor x tricolor. the ODDS are that the babies will favor the parents, but neither trait is dominant to the other. imho. but you got there first, chuck.

>>Ok thanks
>>What if i pair two tangerines that are 100% het for albino, what would the babies look like?
>>Would there be albinos and normal looking babies? And would the normal ones be het for albino?

go to this link and read and re-read it and you'll be able to noodle it all out. the site hasn't been updated in years but the principles haven't changed! enjoy.

terry

an explanation of honduran milk snake genetics