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I got an 09 pair of northern pines from Nick P. about a month ago. Right from the start the male was the larger more aggressive feeder, but the female did eat a ft fuzzie once a weed since then. The last one she ate, however, she regurged. I keep all my pits at room temp.(70-74 degrees) with a slight drop at night. Haven't had any problems with any of the others. After the regurge she has been acting very restless, constantly trying to find a way out of her tub. I thought she was hungry, but I resisted offering her food again for a week. After a week I offered her a pinky, which she totally ignored. The only time she settles down in her hide is at night. In the mean time all my other pits are eating and growing like crazy. Any suggestions?
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Matt Kauffman

Well, this is a long shot, but could she maybe have mites? When I first rescued my little king snake (first snake in my collection, at the time had no other snakes)from my cat he had mites, and was very restless, but after treatment calmed right down. He also regurged occasionally but after getting rid of the mites that has not happened again either.

No, she doesn't have mites. I'm going to raise the temp. in one area of the cage and give it some more time. Hopefully she is just a little freaded out by the regurge and in time she will get back to normal. I had another pit go off feed for a while after a regurge a couple years ago.
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Matt Kauffman

Hmmm, can't answer the "always females" question Matt but get a load of this:

Yesterday I had 3 gurges, all '09 pines, one female ruthveni, one male northern (not from Nick P.) and one female linneaticollis! Of course the first thing you do is wonder what that pattern is but there is none. Could be overfeeding but the interval for each hasn't been shorter that 5 days and mostly 6-8.

Might be significant that of the 3 mice (small and hopper) that each got fed, each only gurged up two.

My ambient temps are just like yours but they all have a warm side althoug they don't always use it.

Could just be coincidence, dunno. I'll leave 'em alone for at least 10 days now and then try a very small meal.

None are acting hyper though, in fact my northern, who I'd expect would be very active right now has been down all day.

Sometimes ya just can't figure it I guess.

Best of luck for us both!

Sorry to hear that Matt. I always make sure my pits have access to a side in the low 70's but I also have them a warm spot about 83-84. As long as you have the cool side I think you might have much better luck with them having access to a warm area. If they are in a smaller container you might go with a warm side of around 80 so your cool side stays cool enough.
Best of luck to you.
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Randy Whittington

Thanks guy's. I wasn't suggesting that there is more of a chance of regurge in females than males. It's just my frustration coming out because in my collection, if there is a problem feeder it is almost always a female. Like I posted before I have an 08 pair of P. deppei and the female regurged once or twice when she was a hatchling and went off feed for a while. Now she is over three feet and a very aggressive feeder. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and add some heat.

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Matt Kauffman

Glad she doesnt have mites!
A few months ago my biggest gopher Gonzo regurged a meal, which was very unusual for her. So I did an investigation of her habitat concerning the warm spot, using an infrared thermometer to make sure the temps were at the right place. I put two thermometer probes in that spot; one directly on top of the UTH and the other more where the snakes actually nests in the substrate over the UTH, and after raising the temps got it right. Before doing this I had thought her warm spot was adequate but it hadn't been, and when winter came it was not warm enough. She's warm and toasty now and no more regurge.

Man that P. d. d. is a looker!

If you can rule out your husbandry techniques and prey size than you may want to consider having a fecal exam done. The next thing I would consider is internal/external parasites. I have had many a problem with baby pits regurging (mostly deppei) and it is very frustrating. The ones in question often had a large amount of motile protozoans in their crap. The significance of these parasites (mostly trichomonads) is questionable, but I will always treat them with metronidazole if they are displaying the clinical signs and a positive fecal exam (it is vomiting, not regurging, if the snake spits up after a couple of days). I have saved a couple from the brink of doom this way, but I have lost some as well.

Last but not least, I have learned to keep the temperate east coast/midwest pituophis separate from the montaine species such as deppei, because what may be considered normal GI flora in one species GI tract may be harmful to another species. I have tried supplements such as probiotics, grape seed extract, etc...and I have yet to come to a conclusion on these as treatment for vomiting/regurging. I know you are probably a seasoned herp keeper and I don't want to sound too remedial but I would wait at least 14-21 days before I reintroduce food to let the snake's stomach acid replenish itself. Snakes that regurge are also ravenously thirsty and lose a lot of fluid when they puke.

Mylicon, DVM

The being thisty remind me that when I have them regurge or vomit( only once had anybody vomit a partially digested meal) I put unflavored Pedialyte in their water bowls. This restores their electrolytes.

Thank you Mylicon,

I am definitely not a "seasoned herp keeper" but thanks for the benefit of the doubt

Anyway, I appreciate the input from a knowledgeable source and I will consider the parasite possibility, although in my case it seems somewhat unlikely based upon a combination of circumstances, associations etc.

I'll wait it out and try very small meals next...if there's any more sign of trouble, I'll go straight to the vet for fecal.

Their temps and there response to warm/cold side indicates to me that everything is likely just fine there but I am always observing, wondering, comparing etc.

Thanks again for your knowledgeable input. I'll will post on the next developments, positive or negative.

Brad

Your welcome, let me know what happens. I have two female 09 deppei that are problematic and will regurge every now and then (frankly i don't what the hell is wrong with them) but will usually keep meals down if they are very small (like pinky heads). I was very impressed by that large male deppei you posted pics of and would love to see more of him. I agree that the females typically regurge more than the males for some reason.

Mylicon

Thanks for the compliment on "Diego". He's just over 6 feet now at 2 1/2 years and very, very heavy. He has never refused a meal but until just recently has been very shy and lethargic so I don't feed him regularly. Just recently he has become more active, inquisitive and less shy. With all due respect to my pet, he is probably the ugliest P. d. d. ever as his whole rear half has really dark muddy tipping and no clean color. I don't doubt he'll go up to seven feet someday at this rate and ya gotta love him just for that! I'll try to get some more pics soon and post.

Thanks for all the advice. It's really weird, when the pine had a vomit and subsequent hyper behavior I had her in her own enclosure. I put her back in a larger tub with the male and she calmed down. The only thing that I can think of that is different aside from being by her self, is the substrate of her tub. I didn't have that much aspen left, so I used a mixture of aspen and dry spagnum moss. I don't see how that would have an adverse affect, but what do I know. I could see it being a problem if it were wet or damp, but it wasn't. Anyway, I'm going to get some new aspen and clean her cage really well and see if she will accept it that way.
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Matt Kauffman

I hope you get her sorted. Nothing is more worrisome than regurge or vomiting, in my humble opinion.
Some excerpts(http://www.kingsnake.com/pituophis/p_m_melanoleucus.html)
"Many Pine snakes spend much of their time in abandoned animal burrows or burrows of their own construction dug under old stumps or similar refugia. In ordinary conditions, females will dig massive burrows in which to deposit their eggs. These "nesting" burrows can be as long as five feet and several inches to over a foot deep. A pine snake burrow is truly an impressive sight, with the sand-pile excavated by the female sometimes 2 or 3 feet across!!"
I mention this because my snakes like to make burrows and nests, and when I have to sift the aspen to find poo they sometimes are a little put out by the change (although nobody has barfed over that). Maybe the females have a stronger instinct even as babies to build nests. I don't have pines, but have heard they are more nervous by nature than other pituophis.
Maybe they react to change in their habitats more than other types.
About babies:

"Hatchlings should not be "pushed" with too many or too-large feedings, as they may be prone to regurgitation. As a member of the genus Pituophis, the Northern Pine is also known to occasionally go "off feed". These periods of fasting can be as short as two weeks but can last as long as two to three months. Typically feeding resumes without harm to the animal's health and after much worrying on the owner's part. This is one of the few drawbacks to these snakes.
A medium-sized bowl of clean water should always be provided, though these snakes may be seen to drink infrequently."
A mistake I made a few times with my baby pituophis was to feed them too many pinks at once as they are quite the little piggies, and will over eat. My biggest challenge was getting the temperature where the snakes actually like to go to digest their food hot enough. Thermometer probes everywhere! LOL!