Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Years back we all bred thayeri for in hopes to produce nice, clean yellow and orange leonis phase neonates that held onto their color into adulthood.....Some folks preferred the Milk Snake Phase and some preferred the Leonis Phase......

In the last few years I've noticed a push for "Earth-Toned" specimens reminiscent of the "Wild-Type" thayeri of the past.

With the onslaught of many aberrants now popping unexpectedly out of eggs and the rarity of Melanistics in the hobby I wonder what the FAVORITES are now....

I was wondering what the majority preference is now....
Not just YOUR preference, but what are Mexicana-heads looking for when they are purchasing new snakes for their collection.....
Is it color, pattern, genetics, lineage, feeding response or what? What fad or cycle are we in now?......All snakes go through cycles in this hobby.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I like thayeri that eat readily every time
-----
___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

>>I like thayeri that eat readily every time

I agree...and some people even claim that they have bred for a good feeding response......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yeah, John, I've had private conversations with people who claim this. And, truthfully, I believe it. It's kind of proved out in my own collection, though I never did it intentionally. In the past, I've looked back, and could notice the trend. And, like you, I haven't thought about doing this because I want to leave it open for anything I holdback. But I talked to one breeder who told me that regardless of how nice an animal was, if it didn't feed right away on pinks, he didn't keep it in his collection. And he's got a serious collection, lol.

>>Yeah, John, I've had private conversations with people who claim this. And, truthfully, I believe it. It's kind of proved out in my own collection, though I never did it intentionally. In the past, I've looked back, and could notice the trend. And, like you, I haven't thought about doing this because I want to leave it open for anything I holdback. But I talked to one breeder who told me that regardless of how nice an animal was, if it didn't feed right away on pinks, he didn't keep it in his collection. And he's got a serious collection, lol.

Yep Brian...I've heard the same claims and have no reason to believe they aren't true.....Mr. Cherry has claimed to produce thayeri that feed readily....I am sure it took some generations because I have hatched common kings and corns that were WAY more stubborn than the thayeri and alterna I have hatched.....

My firm belief is that snakes are individuals and there still will be a stubborn one in the bunch no matter how hard you have tried to "line-breed" for pinky feeders......ALthough I am sure the folks that have these claims certainly have more that feed readily than I do.....LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

While I couldn't resist a few bright and colorful snakes. I have to say that the last 4 I have purchased have been more "natural/earthone". And, that is where my breeding hopes really aim. Even the more natural ones though, I like them to have a "cleaner" look. The first is from the line Tim actually calls, Earthtone, and the second is an F1 male, to pair up with the Earthtone female. And of course the 3rd is one of those colorful ones, it speaks for itself. They are bigger now, but I sure can't take pics as nice as the ones Vivid takes, lol.

WOW.. that MSP is awesome!!! ME WANT! lol
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Brian,

I really like those. All are nice choices. I especially like the F1 male. I have a nice F2 male from Tim with a really cool bow tie pattern that I am excited about.

-----
God Bless Evolution.

>>While I couldn't resist a few bright and colorful snakes. I have to say that the last 4 I have purchased have been more "natural/earthone". And, that is where my breeding hopes really aim. Even the more natural ones though, I like them to have a "cleaner" look. The first is from the line Tim actually calls, Earthtone, and the second is an F1 male, to pair up with the Earthtone female. And of course the 3rd is one of those colorful ones, it speaks for itself. They are bigger now, but I sure can't take pics as nice as the ones Vivid takes, lol.

I agree...I like them both...all for that matter....hehe

Great Acquisitions.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

genetics. i tend to get the earth-tones - something that would be possible to avoid predation for a bit in the wild at least. would like to produce wild-type - will be outcrossing. see a lot of speckled patterns on the animals i have (individual scales with two or three spots between dorsal bands). is there any info on feeding issues and the different morphs (milk vs. leonis; green vs. red, etc.)?

>>genetics. i tend to get the earth-tones - something that would be possible to avoid predation for a bit in the wild at least. would like to produce wild-type - will be outcrossing. see a lot of speckled patterns on the animals i have (individual scales with two or three spots between dorsal bands). is there any info on feeding issues and the different morphs (milk vs. leonis; green vs. red, etc.)?
>>

I believe thayeri feed when they want....regardless of their phase......But some say they have line bred for readily feeding thayeri....I haven't because most o the time the gorgeous neonates seem to be the hardest to get to feed....lol
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I don't think the market for screaming orange, yellow, or bright white is going away any time soon, especially among those new to mexicana. They're cool looking snakes and I can appreciate 'em

It is nice to see that that many folks, once they get into thayeri, start to get into the more "natural" look.

I think there is a market for both.

Greg
Rogue River Reptiles

That is a very good point. A lot of people are drawn to thayeri because of the bright colors and endless possibilities when breeding them. After you begin to appreciate the snake, the interest in the natural forms comes around. But in the end, who doesn't like both on their own way? Lol. This girl has a future with the MSP above.

That will be a sweet pairing Brian!
-----
God Bless Evolution.

>>I don't think the market for screaming orange, yellow, or bright white is going away any time soon, especially among those new to mexicana. They're cool looking snakes and I can appreciate 'em
>>
>>It is nice to see that that many folks, once they get into thayeri, start to get into the more "natural" look.
>>
>>I think there is a market for both.

I agree with you Greg.....I like both....Lot's of folks here like both....There seems to be a market for both, eh?....lol
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

The thayeri color spectrum was conquered back in the mid-90s. Tim Gebhard took it as far as it could go and I believe that is still the case today. I vividly recall (intended pun) in '97 seeing at his facility laser orange/vermilion/peach MSP snakes with razor thin black to no black at all - I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Prior to that, I had never seen such an extreme colored thayeri morph. I knew I couldn't improve on the colors so I always bred for pattern. A super speckled bright orange Leonis morph would be a very impressive snake......like a River Road alterna. Some of the Leonis patterns in the hobby are leaning that way.

I also envision a Leonis Milksnake combo morph (LeoMilk).....again like an alterna with a super speckled neck and blairs pattern starting halfway down the body.

I believe within 10~15 yrs someone will be producing these. I wonder which one of you will be the first. Let the race begin!

-----
SerpentDan
www.SerpentsOnline.com

Great to see you posting on this forum. Keep it up. We need your input, since your one of the originals. Mike Bodner

Judging from the questions I'm getting people are into lineage. Looks matter too but people want to "know" they are getting thayeri not something else.

From a personal perspective I like thayeri with symmetrical head patterns, nice even patterning, good color even if its just in the high lights. Inter-band speckling can also add interest. Pictured is my favorite of all time. He is one of Tim's earth toned animals but I doubt that very many were found that looked like this.

-----
“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM