Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For those of you who haven’t watched the March 3rd Fish and Game Commission meeting, I suggest you do to get the real story. What is being presented on here and by email, by a lot of people, is not the truth of what happened. We did not win on March 3rd. The Fish and Game Commission is not dropping the ban on non-native frogs and turtles. They stated plain and clear towards the end of the meeting, that this was only the first step, and that the majority of the Commission, if not all, were for the 671 proposal.
For those of you taking credit for a “win” for the reptile community, shame on you. I shouldn’t have to remind you that there is a video of the meeting, and to recommend that they watch it.
For all the people that are falling for these falsities they are claiming, and those who are praising them; I have to say, watch the video. Do your own research; do not just believe what you read, or what people tell you. That is why the HSUS has so much support. They say a lot, but the facts say differently. I suggest you look into the facts.
Instead of beating around the bush, like the Fish and Game, I will lay it out clearly. I’m not attacking anyone, for the record. I’m only trying to paint the factual picture for those who are believing lies. I just think that if we want to be a logical, aware, and successful community, we need to not only look into opposing groups actions and intentions, but our own.
USARK in their latest email claimed a win for California. “USARK succeeds in California”. I do not see how we in any way succeeded? They are just delaying the ban, and they have made it clear, either way they are going to try to do a blanket ban on these animals. Yes I’m positive USARKS’s involvement did help our cause, by creating awareness and by people sending emails. But, just a note, they did not post an alert on here or send an email until March 1st; a month after it was proposed, and with two days to prepare. Also, if anyone watched the video, or was there, you know that the speech given did nothing for us and wasn’t even relevant to the topic at hand. Most of the speech was spent on explaining what USARK was. It was hurried and unemotional. I realize that talk-time was cut down to two minutes, but why then was it mostly spent talking about USARK and not on the reasons why what they are doing is wrong. At the meeting I was given a copy on the USARK press release. It was a great write-up of what was going on, and reasons against it. I wish that it had been read there. I also wish it would have been release to more press than Bizjournals.com. I was also surprised after reading the article that the impact on the Asian community and markets was not brought up. Thank you for coming out and supporting us, and for work that they do, I know with all the bills and regulations going on they must be spread thin.
Scott Solar, thank you for coming out and supporting our community as well, but this was not a victory, and the fact that it keeps being said that there is, is extremely frustrating. I was very surprised that you are staking claim to this as your victory. You also stated that you brought to the Commissions attention the 261 exemption, was this before the meeting or after? Because you did not state it in your public comment. When you went before the Commission you asked the same question that the person before you did, which made them realize they needed to show a slide from the last presentation to make the resolution clear. And with your most recent statement that you knew what the Commission was proposing before it started, is surprising, since your speech sounded so taken off guard and you didn’t post anything till the day after. Your comments on the Heloderma issue were great and made some excellent points to the Commission. Thank you.
The real hero’s of the March 3rd meeting were Mike Luhrs, for the great speech and starting off the process of solving the political puzzle the Commission laid out before us; Christine Roche, was a GREAT voice for our community, and really solved the puzzle and got their real agenda on the table. Great work!! You confronted them on their conflicting information and hidden agendas.
Like I said before, please do not just believe what I say, or anyone else. With everything, if you want to know the truth, you need to find it or see it yourself. That’s what is great about this because there is actually video of what happened. And really, this is just my interpretation of what I saw.
On a personal note, those of you attacking someone for voicing their anger and frustration on a topic that is not only a source of their income, but a life-long passion, is wrong. Do we not live in America, where we are (supposed to be at least) allowed to voice our opinions and concerns? Are we all supposed to be unemotional robots, trying to be so P.C. that our point is never made, and the whole point to our mission gets lost? WE FIGHT THEM, BECAUSE WE LOVE WHAT WE DO. If you don’t, you are never going to win. A little emotion, passion, and drive in 15 seconds should mean more than a world of monotone, rehearsed chatter.
I know this post might get a lot of backlash, that’s not what I’m after. I’m not trying to attack anyone, like I said, or make any sort of problem. I just don’t want our community to be misled, and I think we should have more integrity than that. I want to encourage everyone to join together, stay informed, and communicate as much as you can to protect out rights to do what we love.
One more thing … Lets bring the animal rights movement down!

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I'm still trying to get through the testimony. It seems to be loading on my player slower than real time. The Turtle Frog issue is 4 hours in. Could it be the slow loading is no accident?

Somebody tell Mr. Kellogg to wake up. It is obvious the Fish and Game hadn't a clue what was going on and could care less. Sometimes that cavalier attitude just makes me sick.

Obviously an AR agenda pushed by a bunch of civic minded women with a cause. Those women furthering their cause by scapegoating hobbyists, spreading rumor and myth without any basis in fact. Spouting exaggerations and untruths. What are their qualifications to say one way or another where turtles are coming from and what kind of health issues may be present? They provide no proof the animals are poached, illegal. Well, I say they are all captive born and legal. I have a wealth of personal experience on the subject.

Don't kid yourselves. As soon as they get this "food" thing passed, they'll be all about closing that "loophole".

Scary when you see the deciders in action, isn't it!

Thanks for connecting a few more dots for us Michael.

Stay on 'em.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Has Fish and Game considered the consequences of a ban on importation of turtles for food?
Good bye populations of Actinemmys marmorata I used to enjoy observing. They are destined for the cooking pot. Prohibition never has and never will work.

"Prohibition never has and never will work."

My thoughts exactly, but the government doesn't seem to learn from their mistakes, huh?

I don't think the Fish and Game Commission has thought about the consequences of this food ban at all. It's not their goal, it's just a stepping stone to what they want; a total ban of these animals (the 671 route). And really, any ban they choose, it is most likely going to increase the negative affect on the native animals. If there are no exotics coming in, they will be replaced by native ones... (which are already illegal, but already here)...

Tammy

Exactly. These AR groups come to these meeting with their "scientific" powerpoint presentations, their eloquent speeches, and I have a feeling, some fat, healthy checks in the right peoples hands. They quote numbers (from where??), and facts, and cases, that they do not support with evidence. I'm sure there might be a case or a statistic here or there that supports them; maybe even in the slightest, and they run with it.
Very scary that they have the power they do; and even scarier to see the people actually making the decisions. Most of them weren't even listening... they were texting, eating, and I'm sure the guy on the far right was a zombie...

Tammy

Thanks for the response. And on catching an error.
From the comments in one of his posts, my opinion was that he made it sound like there was a victory for the reptile community because of him, among other people. But it was more of claiming that he exposed DFG, and that he was happy for the results than what I stated in the above. But his posts implied there was a victory, I think that's what I was really getting at. Implied is the same as opinion though, thanks for correcting me.
Scott's a nice guy and I'm positive he is helping our cause, don't get me wrong! The above post was to get everyone involved, make some things clear and to get people to question things (thank you for questioning me)
Tammy

Result: Pet trade excluded from ban!

"after I/PIJAC exposed Fish & Game had excluded the pet trade from the ban on import of turtles & frogs."
"When the time came to discuss the turtle/frog ban, it was mentioned that the pet trade has a "261 exemption". I caught this, albeit many of the commission did not. I started our (My/PIJAC's) testimony & after providing my background info I asked for clarification on this point."
"DFG you rocked today! Keep up the good work.
7) Everyone who wrote letters. You rock too!
Thanks everyone! Woo hoo!"