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2010 Thayeri pairing

Beaker30 Mar 07, 2010 10:48 AM

I will have 3 thayeri pairings going this season. I am very excited about one in particular. It will be a pairing of two yellow animals from Mike Bodner.

The male comes from Vivid x Vermilya lineage and has some cool bullseyes:

The female comes from Logan x Stahl lineage and threw some really yellow babies last season when she was paired with my light green male:

Here is an aberrant yellow baby she produced for me last year:

I know both of them are carrying aberrant genes. The male's sire, and the female's dam are the pair Mike used to produce his aberrant jag babies. (The next two pics are courtesy of Mike B.)

This male in 2008:

And this female in 2009:

I am keeping my fingers crossed to get some aberrants. But even if I don't, they should still produce some awesome yellows. I have a male sibling to those two aberrants who I will use to breed to my aberrant 09 female and a female I will keep from this clutch. Should be exciting.
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God Bless Evolution.

Replies (28)

tgcorley Mar 07, 2010 03:24 PM

Craig -- all are nice animals, but that first male is a BEAUTY! The female you're going to pair him with shows some aberrancies herself, especially near her neck. Good luck getting some aberrant babies this season, but I'll bet even the "normal" ones will be super nice. -- Tom

As you can see below, the green female I picked up from Maria last fall is doing well - she has never refused a meal! Maybe in a couple of years we can arrange a pairing with one of your nice greens . . .

Beaker30 Mar 07, 2010 07:00 PM

Sounds like a plan Tom. She's looking really nice. I'm jealous!
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God Bless Evolution.

Jlassiter Mar 07, 2010 05:53 PM

Craig...that first one is VERY nice......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Beaker30 Mar 07, 2010 07:14 PM

Thaks John. He is a really big snake too. But this is his first attempt, so I'm crossing my fingers.
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God Bless Evolution.

lirepman76 Mar 10, 2010 06:45 AM

Nice snakes!

What do you mean by Logan x stahl lineage?
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

Beaker30 Mar 10, 2010 06:05 PM

Thanks for the kind words. Logan x Stahl means that the sire of that snake was produced by Logan. He is the yellow snake in the pic at the top of this forum. That snake is in the possession of Maria Heidkamp-Scully of Alaska Reptiles now. Stahl means the dam of that snake was produced by Evan Stahl. She is in the possession of Mike Bodner.
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God Bless Evolution.

Jlassiter Mar 10, 2010 09:59 PM

>>Thanks for the kind words. Logan x Stahl means that the sire of that snake was produced by Logan. He is the yellow snake in the pic at the top of this forum. That snake is in the possession of Maria Heidkamp-Scully of Alaska Reptiles now. Stahl means the dam of that snake was produced by Evan Stahl. She is in the possession of Mike Bodner.

Wasn't the damn of that snake the result of a Stahl / Torres pairing produced by David Weymouth?
David never paired up a Stahl X Stahl.......

Or did Mike Bodner directly purchase it from Evan?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Beaker30 Mar 10, 2010 10:07 PM

My 05 female was produced by Mike. Her dam was Mike's snake 5F. I'm almost positive that Mike got that snake directly from Evan. He can chime in if I'm wrong.
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God Bless Evolution.

Jlassiter Mar 10, 2010 10:22 PM

>>My 05 female was produced by Mike. Her dam was Mike's snake 5F. I'm almost positive that Mike got that snake directly from Evan. He can chime in if I'm wrong.

Is that the female with just the two spots on her head and has reduced black?
Cool...I didn't know Mike got her directly from Evan....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

pikiemikie Mar 12, 2010 11:04 PM

Sorry for the delay. Been away. I did get that one as an adult from Evan...Mike

lirepman76 Mar 11, 2010 07:23 AM

Wouldn't that be no lineage than? Neither stahl or Logan knew where they came from.

When I hear lineage it should be traced back to the wild not just someone that has these snakes. You can't just say this is their line and now they are
pure, heck if that were the case there wouldn't be the term generic in thayeri. I see stahl selling every cross possible and I would raise my eyebrows at it. They are pretty and do "look" pure but looks can be real deceiving. Those abberant GBKs you have look like they could have some thayeri in them but they are neat for what they are, Generic abberant GBKs
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

lbenton Mar 11, 2010 11:32 AM

Truth is, I would say the vast majority of the good animals out there do not have a clear "line" any more. Now that in no way means that the vast majority of them are any less than they say they are... And for some that means that they should ask for more $$$ when that "line" does go back to the founding WC stock, and that is fair enough.... However, for me it just says that the buyer should beware and look at all the details they have on animals they choose to work with. And on top of that it would be easy for somebody to simply conform to this "line" idea by stretching some claim on an animal here and there.... which undermines the whole thing anyway.

Not really knowing either breeder myself I can not say if they did any mix-n-match breeding as far as these animals are concerned. But I know where you are coming from on your concerns. I remember some het for albino Mex-mex that were up for sale at some point... saw this idea once, it came and went, and I saw nothing more of it sense. The pictures looked like Mex-mex as far as I could tell, but never having seen a founding albino animal it did not feel right at all. The thing that stood out the most was the text with the add seemed a bit... well confrontational about them being legit without anybody prompting for that kind of defense.

All in all, for me this "line" thing has burned itself out now.

It probably does not matter anyway, after all what if the natural population of thayeri are a convergent population derived from Mex-mex and Ruthveni anyway? (or whatever you might think the melting pot is made with down that way) Truth is nobody really knows what a thayeri is for sure anyway. All we do know are a few localities animals were collected at decades ago, we even have huge gaps in the range we estimate they occur in.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

stevenxowens792 Mar 11, 2010 02:27 PM

I dont agree with the whole "line" convention. It is utilized to try and get an extra bill or two for a certain "line". Folks add their name to a reptile to increase notoriety. Far as I am concerned if it is not true locality that can be traced back to wild parents than it is just thayeri or mex mex.

Later,

StevenX

Joe Forks Mar 11, 2010 05:24 PM

all "line" means to me is that they have been line bred for "x" amount of generations. It does NOT imply locality (to me).

so I think "line" is acceptable (to me).

There is no doubt that "snakes we call thayeri" are sympatric and breed (have bred) with both triangulum and alterna in the wild.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

rbichler Mar 13, 2010 12:45 PM

>>all "line" means to me is that they have been line bred for "x" amount of generations. It does NOT imply locality (to me).
>>
>>so I think "line" is acceptable (to me).
>>

>>Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Thats how I see it.
Bob Bichler

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

rbichler Mar 13, 2010 12:48 PM

>>I dont agree with the whole "line" convention. It is utilized to try and get an extra bill or two for a certain "line". Folks add their name to a reptile to increase notoriety. Far as I am concerned if it is not true locality that can be traced back to wild parents than it is just thayeri or mex mex.
>>
>>Later,
>>
>>StevenX

I agree!
Bob Bichler
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

Beaker30 Mar 11, 2010 04:22 PM

Evan Stahl used to have quite a nice line of pure thayeri from reputable stock that was traceable. He has since sold most of them off (I think he may have one pair left). He got into pythons and boas for awhile, and has lately been dabbling in hybrids. Many of the older thayeri breeders know this about Evan, therefore I didnt feel it necessary to call it anything other than Stahl lineage. And I don't own any GBKs. Everything I have mexicana is pure thayeri....most of which can be traced back to original collectors in the 70s and 80s.
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God Bless Evolution.

Joe Forks Mar 11, 2010 05:26 PM

>>most of which can be traced back to original collectors in the 70s and 80s.

Tracing it back and saying it can be traced back are two different things.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Beaker30 Mar 11, 2010 06:48 PM

Very true Joe. Thus the importance of taking the time and keeping good records if that's important to you.
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God Bless Evolution.

lirepman76 Mar 12, 2010 05:25 AM

When dealing with lineage if it can't be traced just generalized it should be called what it is, generic. Like I said they are nice but are generics.

To say that all of your mexicana are pure is a wide open statement don't you think? All that means is they are some type of mexicana whether it be mex mex x ruthveni or any other like combo.

No abberant GBKs? Could you post pics of these pure mexicana? Remember you did send me an unsolicited link to your photobucket account and I saw all of these snakes.
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

Beaker30 Mar 12, 2010 03:38 PM

Nope, not an aberrant GBK in the bunch. But enjoy the link again at your leisure. Feel free to contact me via e-mail or PM if you have further questions.
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God Bless Evolution.

lirepman76 Mar 12, 2010 05:38 PM

You do know your right. It really would be misrepresention to call them GBKs, thayeri or anything other than crosses. Let me guess, those are Stahls new lineage??
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

waspinator421 Mar 10, 2010 07:28 PM

Oooohh.... I cannot WAIT to see babies from those two. Good luck!!
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Beaker30 Mar 10, 2010 10:05 PM

Thanks Aubrey. You need to update us on your pairing plans!
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God Bless Evolution.

waspinator421 Mar 10, 2010 11:38 PM

LOL, I will, I will!

I did get a neat breeding video last week between the zipper male I got from you and my Dan V MSP, Leeloo. If I can figure out how to reduce the file size I'll get it posted.
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Jlassiter Mar 10, 2010 10:30 PM

Here is one thayeri pairing that I am excited about this year......
This Orange MSP male will be paired up with the female leonis below.....
SYMON - Stahl X Vermilya (Son of Ole Yeller and sibling to Sharktooth) Produced by David Weymouth

ANNIE - Louis Torres lineage produced by David Weymouth

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

antelope Mar 18, 2010 09:27 AM

I'm just gonna post the pair I have when I pair them, they are both mexicana!
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Todd Hughes

Jlassiter Mar 18, 2010 05:54 PM

>>I'm just gonna post the pair I have when I pair them, they are both mexicana!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

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