Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a grsvid female with a minor URI. She is due any time now. Should I treat her now or wait until she has her young? She is at 90 right now. Any input will be greatly appreciated. This is her and her man. It could have been the martin hypo jungle het kahl though!
Jon Rice
JPR BOAS

Since it's just a minor uri and she's due anytime I would wait.why risk it? Downside of waiting could be passing the bad bacteria on to the offspring when they come out. Just keeping her at that high of temperature may resolve the situation anyway.

Even though tylosin will have no adverse effect on the developing young, if it is a mild RI, you could wait and monitor the situation to see if it worsens before treating. My bet is that with the higher cage temps at 90, the interior humidity is very low and you may just be seeing respiratory irritation and not an actual RI. It is however a precursor to an RI if the humidity is not increased. Usually a few days of 70% to 75% humidity at that temp will show a definite improvement and you will not need to consider any antibiotic treatment.

There is no issue with infecting the young as these bacteria are ubiquitous in the captive environment and exposure is already a certainty. It is stress and the subsequent immuno-suppression that causes these bacteria to compromise the health of captive boids, not just the presence of these bacteria. See my March 5th post on Tylan 200 for more info on the proper usage of tylosin.

Kelly

I agree with your statement about bacterias already being in the environment. I also agree to a certain extent that it takes a certain amount of immunosuppression to be brought low by a certain bacteria. But I also believe that some bacteria are just that invasive and can bring a healthy specimen down. Now once out of the membrane the young become introduced to all these news bacterias whereas(correct me here if I'm wrong) only blood borne pathogens can affect the young. Have you ever heard of RIs spreading through collections?

thanks to the both of you!!!! I am going to try and raise the humidity first. I agree to kelly that it might be an irritation and not RI yet. Once again thanks to everyone
Jon Rice

I don't believe that immuno-suppression itself is caused solely by bacteria, unless there is in some way a massive, initial bacterial impact on the system. It is environmental stress that causes the physiological decrease in the functioning of the animals immune system, which in turn allows bacteria that would otherwise be suppressed the opportunity to rapidly multiply within these animals. With these bacteria being always present in captive specimens, if bacteria alone were able to suppress the immune response in healthy, unstressed captive snakes, the majority of our animals would probably be showing some sign of disease most of the time.

This is further supported by your question on RI’s spreading through collections. There have been viruses that spread rapidly through collections of healthy snakes, but I am not aware of any cases where a bacterial infection spread through a majority of a collection. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it would be an extreme case.

On newborns being infected at birth, and essentially clean within the female or egg, this has been studied. Dr. Richard Ross removed python eggs from a gravid female by caesarian section shortly before laying, and found them to contain bacterial species that were known to be pathogenic to stressed captive pythons. These eggs were removed and opened under sterile hospital conditions, and every effort was taken to ensure that there was no outside contamination. So it is probably highly likely that un-born boas as well have already been exposed to some bacterial species before birth. Good questions and an interesting discussion topic.

Kelly

What your saying makes total sense to me. Imagine a man in a bubble scenario. He's living in a pristine environment. Once he steps out of that bubble he's assailed my a multitude of pathogens his body just can't fight at once. It makes sense that those snakes are already being exposed to the bacterias in the area. In that way their bodies are already building their immune systems up.
Usually when I have heard of RIs spreading through collections it's at certain times of the year like cooling season when the animal is brought out of its optimal temperature for an extended period of time. Thanks for all the great info Kelly. I enjoy learning.