Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...when I looked in this box this morning. The two were out all night and wound up "shacking up". Just two "peeps" in a pod I guess

Tommy & Clyde

Cool photo!

Could you imagine some un-suspecting sole opening that box up on Christmas?..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Cool pic! Jeff

Wow, very nice and cool contrast between the two supspecies!! Both those guys are gorgeous. My kids go to Swamp Camp every summer at the Bluebonnet Swamp Center. They house a glades, black, and texas rat together in a big four foot x two foot cage that is about six feet tall. Its an old wood and glass display case. Its very cool seeing the three subspecies hanging out and about on the limbs, hiding in the log halfs in the display, etc. I like the idea of multiple housing and may actually go that route in the not too distant future!! Very cool pic, thanks for sharing it!!

Thanks Kevin, it is pretty cool but just to clarify, it's not exactly multiple housing, they each have their own enclosures but I let them out for extended perionds and sometimes they wind up right back in there own place, which to me is pretty fun stuff!

Problem is that it seems Tom, the Black Rat, is really Tomi! I found them hooked-up last night. Drat, I thinks she's too small/young and besides, I don't want to hybridize (even if the CNAH doesn't even recognize them as subspecies, believe it or not). I sure hope she'll be ok.

Funny, but thats exactly what happened to the Swamp Center LOL!! The male glades hooked up with the female black rat and she laid a clutch last summer. I need to follow up with them and see what they did with the hatchlings!!

Ha! I'd love to see some pics of that enclosure...and the obsoleta x rossaleni offspring.

You seem to have several snakes. Care to list your snakes?

(My new Tex Rat is doing really well. I handle daily; he has not yet bitten once and seems to like riding on my shoulders.)

Ameron
Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Lampropeltis getula californiae (Carlsbad wide-banded morph)
1.0 Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae
1.0 Pantherophis obsoletus lindheimeri
Link

Too many! But not as many as many

...anyway, here's my whole collection on my brand new website at:

serpentrack.com

go to "browse by keeper".

You might even want to join up. I'm finding it very useful in keeping track of my animals. There's only a few keepers there now but should be more to come.

Cheers,
Brad

I saw reference to this scientific name: Scotophis bairdi

That differs from the Elaphe vs. Pantherophis dispute with which I'm familiar.

Why the reference to Scotophis? Is it a CNAH designation that is gaining popularity?

Yep!, always re-inventing the wheel it seems.

Some of the latin names are changing as fast as most change their underwear,..............well, almost anyway!

S. bairdi link

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Wow, the pic on that link is a very interesting looking Baird's but maybe it's just the lighting...would sure like to see that better.

Good question. IMHO, the CNAH list blows and on SerpenTrack.com the taxonomy will be shifting away from it toward more conservative (traditional) groupings on a case by case basis as I have time and people request. DO NOT take that to mean that I am suggesting any one else adopt my preferences (that is if anyone even goes to the site .

Here is link to a some opinions regarding the newer systems which are authored by some very knowledgable individuals and which I personally (I AM NOT ANY SORT OF AUTHORITY) find very agreeable.

southwesternherp.com/news/CommitteeCreated.html

One thing I'd like to say about taxonomy though is that, no system will ever be perfect. Nature does not fit in nice tidy little boxes. Evolution is a messy business and does not play by rules, only by what works. The only true unit of taxonomy is the gene. BUT, in order to work with things we as humans need to classify them as best we can...though in the case of biology, let's not get too stuck in our opinions.

btw, there's also a very active thread related to this on FHF with some very knowledgeable discussion at:
www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30238&p=317102#p317102

LOL!,.....man!, all the posts regarding this on FHF made my head hurt to be quite honest!.

~Doug

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Really good looking animals, Brad.
Do you know the general area the black is from??? State is good enough.
-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

Thanks Bill,

Sorry, no good info. I had been wanting a pure black B-Rat but when I saw this one in Pasadena last November I really took to it. The vendor couldn't even tell me for sure it's age but said it might be het for albino (not a plus for me). He did tell me it was a male though but if you've seen my follow-up post above we now know he's a she, and probably a little bit pregnant now at that

I really like the little girl...sure hope she doesn't get egg bound now at her tender young age.

"The vendor couldn't even tell me for sure it's age but said it might be het for albino (not a plus for me). He did tell me it was a male though but if you've seen my follow-up post above we now know he's a she"

Nothing like good dependable info huh?

That vendor ain't exactly batting a thousand here is he?..LOL!

Don't worry monklet, I'm just having a little sarcastic fun here about the info the vendor gave you, and certainly am not trying to knock your very nice Black Rat.

I wouldn't worry too much about it being het for albino either if the vendor's knowledge of morph genetics isn't any better than his sexing abilities. Just having a little giggle is all, I'm sure probably had similar thoughts too..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

No problem at all Doug. Even if she is het for bino...guess it don't matter much till the babies hatch. Really don't want hybrids or binos but that's what I get for letting 'em party...but they have so much fun

Anyway, I'll bet he thought "het for albino" would be a good selling point. He did have it with a similar size bino though so probably is.

Is much like my own, with many of the same priorities. (No right or wrong, but often different from the Breeders and morph fans who dominate this forum.)

It's good to see your postings, and your insight into behavior, inter-species vs. individual, are always appreciated.

Ameron
Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Lampropeltis getula californiae (Ranger)
1.0 Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae (Jaguar)
1.0 Pantherophis obsoletus lindheimeri (Comanche)

You would be surprised how many of us prefer "normals"... I have over 80 snakes and only 2 "morphs". But who knew??

That's right Amanda. Although I certainly have a few morphs of many different types, I have also always appreciated many normal wild phenotypes and their natural history, identification and meristics as much as anyone I know. To me, it isn't always about breeding the craziest looking offspring possible. Normal, and/or locality snake variations are extremely interesting too.

Just for one example, a couple years ago, I acquired a nice pair of Florida kingsnake's to breed only because they were NOT het for any weird morph(which seems to be the major craze today), but rather just super-nice old-school southern Miami/Dade county high-yellow "brooksi" floridana. As a matter of fact, many people have been practically beating my door down to get their hands on some of these awesome beauties, and they are already spoken for well into the next 2011 season. I have been diligently growing up some exceptional hold-backs from this past year in hopes of keeping up with their demand in the future.

The same goes for normal phenotype Outer Banks kings, Everglades Ratsnakes, locality corns, etc.. I think it is very important to conserve the natural subspecific integrity of many snakes, aside from there being many morphs bred and available.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I would ever keep would be natural occurring..that I found myself.

Ameron you really need to quit generalizing keepers on these forums.

Nate

>>No problem at all Doug. Even if she is het for bino...guess it don't matter much till the babies hatch. Really don't want hybrids or binos but that's what I get for letting 'em party...but they have so much fun
>>
>>Anyway, I'll bet he thought "het for albino" would be a good selling point. He did have it with a similar size bino though so probably is.

Brad, even if she is het for albino, you still won't get any albino babies unless the male is het also, then you only have a 25% chance.

I would consider the offspring hybrids though, seeing as they wouldn't be a natural intergrade. Sometimes hybrids are appreciated though for their beauty at least. I have a hybrid cross bt. a Miami corn and a Brazos Island ratsnake that's really gorgeous and a very interesting snake.

Cheers....TC

-----
Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org

Ohh yeah, of course! Ya mean that if I have pure black hair and both my parents are pure blonde....
-----
Have a nice day

Website: SerpenTrack

Very cool, Brad. Wish i had that kind of luck w/ escapees.

reako45

Yep, you always wish they'd come back on there own, but my house mates always find 'em first .

btw, not sure I made it clear Darren, these two and a few others are "allowed" out now and then...I just make sure to keep the door shut every time no matter what, even if I'm just walking out to come right back.
-----
Have a nice day

Website: SerpenTrack