Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The time is coming close that my fiancee and I will have to move out of my parents' house, yet we are going to be very poor for the next few years so it's obvious that we will need to move into an apartment (and not straight into a house, as we had originally planned). I know I had asked the question of apartment dwelling a couple years ago, but at that point things were a little different because it wasn't such an immediate proposition, and my largest enclosures at the time only measured 4'x2'x2'.

So my question is two fold: How do I convince a landlord to allow me to keep reptiles in an apartment? and How do I go about sneaking the large enclosures in. My thought is that if the landlord sees that I have, among others, two 6'x30"x18" enclosures moving into the apartment, that could be a deal breaker. I also think that if the landlord knows how many I have that would also ruin the deal (I have 6 russian tortoises which I breed, a red footed tortoise, bearded dragon, mali uro, ball python, tree frog, and albino clawed frog). My initial thought was that we would just ask the landlord in question how he felt about small terrarium pets (like tortoises and frogs), and try to dance around the fact that we have so many and they live in large enclosures. Then wrap the enclosures in sheets and bring them in one at a time, so if anyone asks they are just storage cabinets or something.

I have also been thinking about how we are going to fit them and us in an apartment, because we really can only afford a 1 bedroom apartment. My initial thought was to give the bedroom to the animals and live in the rest of the apartment as though it were a studio, though some of them seem to have enough space that we could share the bedroom with most of the animals. It would make it easier if I was able to build a large rack to stack the 6' enclosures (they are tortoise enclosures so the doors are on the top), but I feel that bringing in building materials will raise even more suspicions and we kind of want the whole thing to go unnoticed for the most part.

Just figured someone here has probably been in the same situation, so if you have any advice, please let me know!

Thanks

This is meant to be helpful advice but will most likely offend you. Reality is, if you and your fiance can only afford a one bedroom apartment, you should probably re-think your priorities and drastically reduce the collection. You can return to the hobby when you are more financially stable.

Sorry in advance for how I am sure this will come across.

Bart

Like Bart said. I don't mean to be offensive either but perhaps it's just time to take a break for a few years. You can promise yourself you'll get back into it big time if you want but at the moment it's not realistic.

doesn't mean you can't build your self a locked furniture type cabinet and keep a few of your "can't get rid ofs".

How about a snake rack disguised as a regular chest of drawers? The front could just be one peice that swings away on hinges?
Leave the back open or vented?

How about a large cabinet with folding doors you lock and close when your not home with louvers?

A cabinet out in the open with mirrored door/sliders (1 way glass) that would allow you to see in when the lights are on but have a easily gotten light switch that when turned off you just see mirror.

Good luck with whatever you decide. We've all had to make tough choices. You'll survive.

Forgot to put this in the other post, but the problem is not necessarily our inability to make enough money. It's more or less that we won't be able to get a mortgage yet due to the nature of our work (I am completely self-employed) and the fact that our income history will be pretty unappealing since we are both working around our college schedules right now and not able to make as much money as we will be next year. But it's still all hypothetical, so who knows what things will be like next year.

Thanks again for the advice. I know you have the animals' best interests in mind, and we are definitely keeping their best interests in mind as well. Our number one goal is to provide them with a safe, healthy environment in which to thrive and reproduce.

Be honest about having reptiles, and babble so enthusiastically about tortoise breeding that things like the bearded dragon sort of slip into the conversation but aren't the focus of it. The landlord will want you shut up after a few minutes and won't really pry. Then sneak the snakes in and use the bedroom for them until you feel safe bringing them out into the living room, at which point you can always claim "Hey, look what somebody traded to me for some tortoises!"
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)
2.0 2009 Eastern Collared Lizards (Cesar and Nino)

Outstanding advice.....and when the landlord comes in to repair something, possibly when you are not home, sees what you "snuck in", and gives you 30 days to get rid of them or move out....be sure to come back and let us know how everything worked out.

Bart

Thanks for the advice. The reality of it is that the animals are our family and they take priority over us (why we're planning on giving the bedroom to them), so we aren't willing to give them up. Don't think I haven't thought about how much easier the whole situation would be if we didn't have the animals, but most of them are animals we will still have in 40 years or more so we'll do what we have to to keep them. But I really do understand where you are coming from. Luckily we actually have the opportunity to make some income from the animals (at least enough to cover any of their expenses) so that will help.

I came up with a rack to stack the 6' enclosures that is easy to build and easy to move (it's actually like two small shelves), and with that I find we will need a 6'x30" plot of space, as well as a 4'x2' plot of space, and that is about it (except for a couple odds and ends in small tanks). Still a lot of space taken up for an apartment, but not as bad as what I was originally thinking. As for the landlord, I think Jackasp does have a bit of a point. Technically, if a landlord gives me the go ahead to keep some 'terrarium animals' in the apartment but they don't specifically say 'no snakes' or anything of that matter, they don't have a case against me. Still not something I want to have happen though, so I think outright honesty for the most part is going to have to be the road we take.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your input. Thankfully we do not have to move out right now (we have about a year to find a place), and hopefully it will only be for a few years while we get settled.

Another issue is that I'm a professional drummer/percussionist (hence the no money thing) so I am looking for a rehearsal space that I can split with some of the other musicians I work with. That is also proving more difficult than originally planned.

When I first moved out and into an apartment, I had about 8-9 snakes, all kingsnakes. I didn't tell the manager, and nobody knew anything until a maintenance worker came in, saw the cages and told.

Luckily for me, the manager asked first, and I showed her the animals. My apartment was in extremely good shape, and she noted that. She also had a son who later came over to see the snakes. The manager took no action (it was within her rights to ask me to get rid of the animals).

I was prepared to have to give away the snakes, but I didn't have to. She asked about "big snakes" and I had none. I was free to keep the snakes.

So my advice is to keep things as neat as you can, and I would consider reducing the size of the collection to where the cages do not overtake the apartment. Tortoises do not instill fear in people like snakes, so if you are a tortoise person, then you might do well by not having the python while there.

If the landlord sees cage bedding all over the floor and cages strewn about, it may be bad news for you. But if the cages are neat, against one wall and tools and such are put away in cabinets or drawers, then it gives a much better impression. That is just the reality of it.

From what I have experienced, landlords dislike aquariums because of possible water spills, and they dislike large snakes because of their perceived liability. And to the general public, any "python" conjures images of giant snakes.
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Mark

Yeah, I have been thinking lately about the ball python causing some problems with the whole situation, which is funny because he is by far the least difficult one to keep in such a situation because his enclosure is lightweight and relatively small (it's a 4' neodesha), and his electricity needs are very very little. The tortoises are much less threatening, but they do require a lot more care.

At this point I am still in the hypothetical stages so I am just trying to gather information on how I could make it work out. We understand that having the animals makes things a bit more difficult for us (as does my career as a musician), so we are just going to have to wait and see what happens over the next year. To be honest an apartment is not where I want to be. I am an avid gardener and I enjoy spending time with the tortoises in the yard. However, I think that it is not very feasible for my fiancee and I to live with my parents once we are married. I feel things will just be a bit too weird. But we are hoping that the apartment thing would only have to last a couple of years.

Thanks for your input. My hope is that, with all of the apartment complexes available in our price range, we will be able to find someone that is willing to allow us to keep our animals.

If money is not the issue, just the ability to buy a house at this time, have you considered renting an old house away from other homes? I have found landlords that don't need to be concerned about "what the other tenants might think" are far more forgiving.

Being a drummer, this may serve you best. You will never find an apartment complex that will allow you to play your drums.

Bart

Yeah, that is an idea we have thought about as well, and something that we may investigate more. The reason we were looking into small apartments and not houses was simply because we figured with a really low rent we could continue to stash money away for when we do have the ability to buy a house. But, there are a lot of things to consider.

And no, I don't expect an apartment complex to let me practice my drums That's why I've been looking into renting a rehearsal space with some of the musicians I work with, and I also figured buying a set of electronic drums would help the situation.

There is a lot to consider though, even without the reptiles, so I guess it is something we will just have to keep looking into and researching. Next month we are hoping to go to a few of the complexes we were thinking about, get a chance to look around at the apartments, and ask the landlords some of the questions we have been pondering in regard to the reptiles. I think that will probably give us the most information, because if we find that the landlords don't seem to care about bringing some reptiles, and the apartments are sizeable enough (a lot of the floor plans we've looked at seem to have plenty of space), then we will still consider moving into an apartment. If we are met with opposition and the apartments do not seem workable then we will have to go back to the drawing board.

Thanks for all of the help! Luckily we are not in a complete hurry to move out of my parents' house, but it will be nice when we can.

Whatever you do, get things in writing. If it isn't in writing, it doesn't count. I got a written addendum to my lease once (the other apartment, they allowed pets).
I'd be as frank as possible without being graphic. Say you have several caged pets.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I recently moved, so I know what you are going for. I had 19 snakes when I moved. I looked into apartments and commercial renting companies and decided against it. They have so many rules and if you bend one, they could kick you out. Not what anyone needs. So I went for a different approach.
I looked on craigslist for apartments (not much luck there) and rooms shared. I contacted close to a dozen people. Maybe four of them replied, none leading to a room. Then I went for the last thing I could think of.
I posted a room wanted ad. Now, I know this isn't a great idea, but I was desperate. In the ad, I said I have caged reptiles. I also specified that they don't come out (not on a regular basis anyways) and won't get out. I posted a picture of me and my dog to show that I am just a little white girl who needs a place to live. I got several responses, some not in the right location and some just seemed odd. Obviously I weeded out those, and left a few to talk to. I was asked about my snakes and how many I had. I told them and explained that they are in a rack system and really won't be a "crazy snake lady". I sent some pictures and they understood.
I am now in my new place, found on craigslist, and very happy with it. I think it is VERY important to be clear what you have (people are afraid of what they don't know) and how knowledgeable you are about what you keep. Also, I ended up getting the basement of a house, so I don't share any living space except the kitchen. I have plenty of privacy and lots of room for my critters.

Hope this helps!

I recently moved, so I know what you are going for. I had 19 snakes when I moved. I looked into apartments and commercial renting companies and decided against it. They have so many rules and if you bend one, they could kick you out. Not what anyone needs. So I went for a different approach.

I looked on craigslist for apartments (not much luck there) and rooms shared. I contacted close to a dozen people. Maybe four of them replied, none leading to a room. Then I went for the last thing I could think of.

I posted a room wanted ad. Now, I know this isn't a great idea, but I was desperate. In the ad, I said I have caged reptiles. I also specified that they don't come out (not on a regular basis anyways) and won't get out. I posted a picture of me and my dog to show that I am just a little white girl who needs a place to live. I got several responses, some not in the right location and some just seemed odd. Obviously I weeded out those, and left a few to talk to. I was asked about my snakes and how many I had. I told them and explained that they are in a rack system and really won't be a "crazy snake lady". I sent some pictures and they understood.

I am now in my new place, found on craigslist, and very happy with it. I think it is VERY important to be clear what you have (people are afraid of what they don't know) and how knowledgeable you are about what you keep. Also, I ended up getting the basement of a house, so I don't share any living space except the kitchen. I have plenty of privacy and lots of room for my critters.

Hope this helps!

When I first got into herps over 20 years ago, I encountered this exact same issue. Basically I asked what the policies were regarding pets, their response was pets were allowed. I asked what limitations there were and they basically said no aqauariums over 500 pounds on the second floors.

I moved in with a collection about about 15 animals and moved out 6 months to a year later with almost 100. I know that maint. came and serviced the apartment and they were aware of what I was doing.

I'm not naive enough to think that things haven't changes since then, but I think it is still worth being up front and inquiring. I wouldn't volunteer a bunch of info, but if asked be honest. In the grand scheme of things your herps will be a lot less annoying then the yapping chihuahua next door.

I know this post is a few months old, but I was bored here tonight browsing through the forums and saw this. My wife and I lived in two different apartment complexes before we got to the house that we are renting now. And I'll tell you, honesty is the way to go. I saw other tenants in those apartment complexes almost kicked out because they had an extra critter that wasn't in their lease. When we were looking for houses to rent, that was one of the big things I would bring up. A landlord will pretty much always ask about pets. So I told them, at the time "I have a few snakes. One in a terrarium with a combination lock and locking clips to keep it closed. The rest are in a rack and can't get out." And all but one potential landlord we interviewed with pretty much said "fine, as long as they're not running loose."

Now, the apartments will give you more trouble about the animals. They always do. That's just how they are. And in my experience, they don't take care of s**t. Much better experiences in a rental house. And the landlords are usually nowhere near as picky. I mean hell, the house we're in was only built in '02, and we got in there without any credit check or background check. It was all the honesty that got us in there.