Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I was thinking about ways we can try to nip future legislation in the bud, and I keep coming back to one thought I think we already know and many already probably practice: captive breeding.
AR groups are going after large constrictors because they can argue these animals pose threats to humans and the environment, and they have an event to point to in the everglades. I know we are busy fighting this battle, but I'm thinking down the line on what they will attack next. Putting myself in their shoes, it's going to be hard to attack smaller reptiles because you can't sensationalize their ability to hurt people, and so far most of them don't pose a threat to any ecosystems (I know tokay geckos are established in Florida, but do they do any harm really?). So the way they have to do it is by saying we are putting these reptiles at risk in the wild, so we should ban their sale.
Obviously the way to combat this is to breed in captivity. My opinion, but I think every herp owner who takes an animal out of the wild has a responsibility to breed it in captivity; not only to lessen the need for wild specimens, but to ensure these animals survival (since most ecosystems are being burned and pillaged). A captive population will also give the AR people less of a target to aim at, since then how are they going to attack us? Maybe these captive animals will mutate and become crazed killers? lol honestly such an argument wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway that is my thought for the day

"A captive population will also give the AR people less of a target to aim at, since then how are they going to attack us?"

To an AR person, a captive animal is an enslaved animal. The very fact that you have an animal at all is reason enough for the AR groups to attack.

I agree, but that seems like a much harder argument to sell to the public than " the revenge of the giant killer pythons in the everglades." Normal people don't care about "enslaved animals", unless AR spins it like we are abusing the hell out of them--and I'm sure they will. Still, an easier battle to fight IMO.

Lumping all "Animal Rights" people together as having but one mind is a huge mistake. Many simply want animals to be treated humanely.

You are confusing Animal Rights with Animal Welfare. The Animal Rights agenda is clear and unified.

I refer to their membership.

And therein lies the problem. Most people don't know the difference. My apologies if you do.

Animal Rights = No pets.

Animal Welfare = Pets that are properly cared for.

The Humane Society of the United States and PeTA are both Animal Rights organizations, among many others.

Your local humane society most likely falls into the Animal Welfare group.

"You are confusing Animal Rights with Animal Welfare. The Animal Rights agenda is clear and unified."

The Pet-Owner's Rights Agenda appears to be that way as well. "Sky' s the limit, don't regulate us!"

The Pet-Owner's Rights Agenda appears to be that way as well. "Sky' s the limit, don't regulate us!" Source: busterlimes

How soon you forget... this was in response to one of YOUR posts from yesterday:

"I'm not against regulating dangerous things as long as it can be shown that regulation is absolutely necessary and that such regulation imposes the minimum restrictions necessary to achieve its purpose."

See here: forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1797490,1798301

busterlimes, when you conveniently forget important details it makes you look like a TROLL.

They don' take kindly to your message here pardna.

Better go on ahead, and get out of Dodge.

I for one agree totally with jjenkins, and on the rare occasion I remove an animal from the wild, it is with the firm intention of adding it to a breeding group.

And though it is true that this will do NOTHING to appease HSUS or PETA, it is also true that it will help us in the eyes of just about everyone els, and remove from them one of the few arguments that gets traction with regulators. If all they have is the humane argument alone, then they are just preaching to each other....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

As far as imported "wild" animals from developing nations go, the animals are "captive bred", "farmed", or "ranched" as a renewable resource. As soon as the indigenous nationals recognize the inherent value of the animals and the habitat those animals occupy as a renewable resource, they have incentive to protect and conserve them.

This economy/trade provides individuals income as well as benefits the balance of trade for those countries, with exports for cash.

It is a win win for global economic development and for conservation.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Thank you, John. Great point!

So are all the "wild-caught" herps I see in stores actually farmed? If so then I am pleasantly surprised.

Certainly not all. Anoles would not be, for instance. I think it depends a lot on where they are listed on the CITES appendix, or whether or not they are listed. Also depends on abundance, value, scarcity, among others.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Another way to combat the wild import issue is to address the fact that: quota managed exports ( of natural goods ) from countries can cause countries to value them as assets. If rural people can collect/farm raise from ecosystems in a sustainable manner, there will be more incentive to keep ecosystems intact. Just a thought.

Love prairie chickens (bird with drums, RIGHTEOUS) and bison. We do have farmers to thank for at least those two.