Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Whats the difference between a translucent and a hypo translucent? What should they cost? I want to get a red translucent, I just don't know how much they're worth.

You are talking about different genetic traits.

Translucency is a genetic disorder that causes the skin to loose white pigmentation. Thus creating patches of skin or an entire (homozygous) dragon that appears "see through."

Hypo (hypomelanism) is a different genetic disorder that causes the loss of black/brown (dark in general) pigmentation. This manifests in a homo form having 20 clear nails.

So a hypo trans should appear "see through" and have 20 clear nails. 1 black nails means a het hypo animal. The trans would have to be proven out to be 100% sure. As I have a trans that is het, but completely "see through."
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Everything stated here in, is a matter of personal opinion. I invite and enjoy debate, as this is an open forum.

//Seth

It is a trait, not a disorder. A disorder is defined as An ailment that affects the function of mind or body. Hypo, trans, or hypo trans traits do not affect the health of the dragon or how it behaves. Most lines are very inbread and that leads to poor health, but it is not the traits, it is how they were produced.

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www.moonstonedragons.com

Not arguing with you Moon. Because, I agree it is not the trait but the inbreeding that causes the issues. But it can also be viewed as a disorder. As such:
Disorder – noun
1.
lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion
2.
an irregularity
3.
breach of order; disorderly conduct; public disturbance.
4.
a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction

or

Genetic Disorder -
A pathological condition caused by an absent or defective gene or by a chromosomal aberration

So specifically, any variation from the normal in any species can be viewed as a genetic disorder. As it varies from what is typically expected.

Though, the negative connotation of the word is directly related to the consequences of inbreeding.

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Everything stated here in, is a matter of personal opinion. I invite and enjoy debate, as this is an open forum.

//Seth

RED TRANS. Previous pic was a CITRUS HYPOTRANS.

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www.moonstonedragons.com

That is not really that red MoonStones.

Here is a red trans sir:

He is a phantom dragon.

Gotta give credit where it's due.

It is not about giving credit where it is due. He asked for a red trans pic and hypotrans pic. What mine lacks is the muddy undertones yours show. As he grew older, the red got darker and he was solid and patternless. The red line he comes from, Extreme Red line, gets darker, rather than fading out like the other red lines I see out there. It is a blue red, not orange like your dragons. Since I don't breed reds, and that was from an accidental breeding, he was sold, so I can't show you pics of how he looks today. He also looks lighter because he was extremely transparent missing all the white patchs your pics show. I also produced that dragin, where yours are purchased. But thanks for the commentary.
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www.moonstonedragons.com

No need to get all ruffled up there moonstoones.

Randy's extreme reds that darken up later on in life.

I have heard of those claimed happenings.

I will stick with the red on delivery thank you.

The red *trans* dont "fade" like other dragons do and red dont fade like hypos do.

I personally dont enjoy when breeders claim their dragons to be red when they obviously are not.

I have seen some of the extreme reds, they are nice and Randy does have some nice dragons.

I was joking around... red is red. Red trans I want to see RED man.

RED I SAY SIR: NOT ORANGE extreme non fading color change red.

But red!!! lol

For the record, I dont get "ruffled". Just calling it how I see it. I dont believe in self promotion and believe in promoting others in forum even less. There are already lots of interesting reading in BOI for those interested..

My pics are also not photoshopped. He was very red, however it didnt show up in the pic. He was put on the kitchen counter and I snapped the pic with a cheep digital. No dramatic lighting. Don't get the wrond idea, I am not defending myself, as I care about as much as your opinion matters.

I would also like to see adult pics of the dragon you posted with an age, weight and length.

Have a nice day.
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www.moonstonedragons.com

"I care about as much as your opinion matters."

touche Moonstones

You dont like self promotion but your signature is your web-sight and I have seen you self promote plenty so that is hypocritical.

I have no reason to promote anyone. I could care less quite honestly brother. Sorry for rubbing you the wrong way.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Red means Red sir.

extreme orange trans

proverbial hat tip to you sir

good day

YOU GO GIRL!
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www.moonstonedragons.com

WTH was that for me I havn't said anything to you and if your moonstonedragons I was looking from buying from you

is your website www.moonstonedragons.com

nevermind that last comment i'm new to the computer world just about 20 years too late.
If you can show what I want I will buy a dragon in time. I just want to produce some really nice REDTRANS.

Not directed at you at all. Directed at Dreamworks. Not sure why, but I felt the need to comment on his comparison of the dragon he purchased to the dragons I produce. I dont know why, guess I was tired. For some reason I felt the need to debate someone who difinitively stated in forum that you can feed all the calcium you want to a dragon because the white part of fecies is excess calcium, and he knows because he tasted it. See "proper calcium and mulit vitamin sup" a forum page or two back. Any 5th grader with a bearded dragon can tell you it is uric acid. My mistake and I own it. It won't happen again. I guess a hobbiest, I should learn from the commercial breeders and spend less time in forum.

No offence intended Dragonzilla

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www.moonstonedragons.com

You need to lighten up that's about it Moonstone.

You took the whole thing very serious from the get-go.

Never meant to offend you. You have gorgeous dragons as do many others on the forum. I was joking around the whole time. Being jovial. I dont need to promote anyone and dont have any affiliation with any breeders. I just love certain breeders work and I express that. Im sure if I had one of your dragons I would brag about your work. And you have gorgeous citrus dragons etc.

Quite frankly...

They are all gorgeous to me actually, even the normal colored ones.

Feeding excessive calcium leads to, a higher level of urinary calcium and a condition known as (hypercalciuria), this can also build up and create other problems in the kidneys etc. That is what creates a kidney stone. Excessive calcium among other factors.

Kidney stones are caused by the following:

* a high level of urinary calcium (hypercalciuria),
* high urinary oxalate (hyperoxaluria),
* high urinary uric acid (hyperuricosuria),
* insufficient urinary citrate, or
* inadequate water flowing through the kidneys.

When I said there was excreted calcium in the stool...

I was referring to the fact that there is no way for the animal to possibly process all the calcium that they intake when eating dusted crickets, and other insects, day in day out month after month.

Therefore calcium does come out in the stool. This is a fact.

There is uric acid in their stool also. I have noticed that when I do heavy dusting of my crickets with calcium there is more white matter in their poop. Call me crazy but I have noticed this and I am very observant.

Supposedly the dragons excrete all excess calcium straight through. Although as anyone knows... anything metabolized through the intestines is first processed and assimilated through the kidneys and liver.

I think that many breeders and keepers use excess calcium and maybe for some, excess vitamins too. Use sparingly is my personal protocol. (Not saying that Im perfect)

Maybe a gravid female or one your looking to breed. Otherwise there is no need to dust ever time you feed crickets etc.

It can cause other complications in the creature. Their internal organs are not able to process that much calcium. And using it month after month after month. It cant be good. Some of it must calcify and be retained in other organs. It could be more harmful than some think actually. I would need to discuss this with a well trained and experienced herp vet.

I have seen some people with dragons, and pet stores go overboard with the calcium.

I know the dragons are not processing and using all of it. There is no way this is possible. Yes, they excrete uric acid. They also excrete the unused calcium.

So when I said the white stuff was calcium how do you know that it isnt? There is uric acid mixed in there... I will freely admit that. But there is also many other things that get excreted in their stool as well. Uric acid crystals being one of the things, but excess calcium is another.

Personally, I think that by saying all the white matter is purely uric acid crystals is a bunch of hogwash. When I feed my dragons a good deal of water they have runny wet poo. When I feed them a good deal of calcium their poo is whiter than normal.

If the white matter they excrete is only uric acid and you can prove that without a shadow of doubt then I will eat my words "not the poo" but my words.

I think I have made a valid enough argument here.

Show me the uric acid definitive excretion proof please.

There is no way that all this white matter is uric acid crystals. I know for a fact that I was going heavy at this time on the calcium.

Now that I have cut back on the calcium I see less white matter.

And before the malay starts, there are lots of good breeders out there. I am in no way condemning any breeder. This was a response to an unsolicited comment and comparison.
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www.moonstonedragons.com

All ruffled up, flared out, and frosty sir!