Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have spent almost 52 years in field work looking for snakes. Hunting in the Okeetee in the early seventies and pretty much all of the eastern states south of Ohio to Florida. Though I have seen just about all of the eastern species, pinesnakes are still the fewest represented. I have seen four live southern pines while actually hunting and seen another dozen DOR. I have also seen three live northern pines, and about 6 DOR. I know that John Ginter came to Florida and saw one while here...beginners luck LOL. Just wondering what are others expirence in seeing live wild pine snakes? They appear to me to be snakes of unsettled areas...or abandoned settled areas. WITHOUT giving locale specific information...can some of you share your expirences with seeing them in the wild and type of siturations you found them and how many you have seen over the years?

Thanks,

Dan

Hey Dan, I've spent a good portion of my life (40 years old, 22 years as a lisenced collector, but collecting now 30 years) as a Class III collector, even got to know a few of the local FWC cops here in Sarasota from encounters in the woods over the years collecting Scarlet kings and cornsnakes, I've seen over fifty eastern Indigos in the wild and am currently breeding eastern coachwhips, mainly to donate to other pros for propagation purposes, and also due to my own concern that regulations placed on big snakes here in flat florida are protecting them out of existence, see the herp law forum and look for my post to the FWC, but I have been focused on aquireing a nice sarasota Co. pine for 22 years and had one 7' male that a animal services officer ran over at 6AM and gave it to me for rehab, but died, attached is a pic of the Sarasota Co. pine. I do happen to know of a few spots north of tampa where some pines are still around, the best method to finding pines is locate and follow sand trails or inspecting holes in the ground or in trees and perhaps the best method is from a distance, spoting (telescope/binoculars) for the "pariscopeing pinesnakes" in the mornings on grassy hills, in fact I know of a few spots where Indigos are common and not only common but the only snake in their home range (350 ac) I'm aware these are strongholds ...I know of place where the pines too are common but ugly (mottled heads, black anteriors, eye bars) at least their as common as the eastern coachwhips which are disappearing as fast as the pines and the indigos and the EDR and this rate of disappearence is nothing short of (0-60)starting in the 15th centery with the invasive spanish hogs introduction then again in the 1940s with the cutting of the High pines, "The Big snakes dont stand a chance just left alone." now they have to contend with roads, dogs, fire ants, armadillos,.ect...obviously the little snakes will always be in the woods as long as there is food and habitat, I have not put a dent in my collecting locations in 22 years...Did you by chance remember of a guy named Jim Watt? he the guy that got me involved in 1980... shoot me an e-mail. Joe Bernardo

Hi Joe,
Don't remember Jin Watt...but doesn't mean I didn't know him...get my age...start forgetting a lot of things. I do know of several spots in Hernando county for pinesnakes...but all I ever saw were DORs. (dead on the road). When ever I found a dead one I would always get out and check the habitat. The first one I ever seen was in the Brandon area coiled under some spanish moss on the ground. I first thought it was a large kingsnake...as the kingsnakes of that area looked more like brooksi rather then Florida kings. When I pulled the snake out from under the moss it went into it's devensive display, scared me witts out of me!! It was a beautiful animil over six feet long and almost solid white head. The three that I found over the years in this area where absolutley beautiful animals, very whitish in colorration and appeared to be covered with a light coat of brown mud. On another occasion in the Brandon area along some railroad tracks I expirenced the head raised high off of the ground thing you are talking about. As a matter of fact...had the snake not had it's head lifted off of the ground in that fashion I would never had seen it. There were also some nice coachwhips in that area. They were dual in there colors....extremely black on the forefront (almost like a black racer) and a light tan on the rear half. They looked almost like two different snakes when seen stretched out. It seemed to me, with what little luck I had with pines...that they were in the wooded areas around open fields. I have seen several dead on I-75 north of the Gainsville area over the years. You are right about the indigos. In the 33 years I lived in the Tampa Bay area I saw over two hundred. It seemed if they existed in an area, then they were the dominate snake. I only knew of one area where indigos and kingsnakes existed...and it seemed both of them in that area reached huge sizes.

Dan

Dan

here are the easterns I breed...

Those really look nice. The ones I saw around Brandon had much more black on them...but yours are much nicer. Just wondering, I bet they consume a lot of mice in a week. do they tame down very much in captivity? One of the few snakes that just because I saw it didn't mean I caught it!LOL

Dan

I have developed a few strategies for acclamating them, first thing you have to do is get bit a few times, this shows that biting is an insufficent deturant, this usually happens the first day, then leave it alone for weeks till it goes into shed, then when it is ready to come out of shed, take it out and put it on the floor and assist it by misting with water and gently helping it rool off it's shed, it will fuss at first but keep trying and be patiant, this seems to tranqulize them and they will usually show a different attitude after this step, then three inch deep aspen bedding, this helps alot, if the snake thinks it can go undergroung it will stress less, a hide box is nessasery as well, also they want to be HOT (110*)in the summer and will eat five AD mice pr/week for five months or so, and if you happen to collect one that won't seem to calm down then do this, take it outside and put it down on the ground in a big open area like my tennis court, and back away 10 feet, slowly, now as the snake looks round to determine which way to escape keep walking in circles around it, as it moves in any direction stay in front of it, the snake will stop and look at you as if its puzzled, but whats happening is its learning that your not chaseing it and your not hurting it and it learns that your the boss and it cant get away, do this several times in it's first year in captivity and be sure to give it a big heat pad and a heat light to bask under, they also like to go outside and be held in the sunlight, remember you cant take ANY snake out of the wild and keep it inside a cage for the rest ot it's life, they get depressed quick, also males HAVE to breed or they will go nuts, and keep in mind even if you comply with all these methods they will still rush into a retreat upon the sight of you entering the snakeroom, but I'm certain this will grant you luck with the coachwhips. I just try to imagine I'm the snake, would I be happy if someone cought me, confined me, but gave me deep bedding and fed me well and let me get laid and took me outside in the sunlight often, I think I could tolerate captivity... JB

That is an awesomely refreshing take on the whole biz. In my limited experience I have already observed what could be perceived as the truth of those general principals. Problem is, the observations, however convincing, are subjective and open to in interpretation. The sense of it all though is clear to me.
-----
Have a nice day

Website: SerpenTrack

Seems like a good strategy to me. I know that I never had a problem of them biting me...especially after first catching them. Reminds me of one of the shows I was attending in Tampa a few years back...(might have been you...don't know) but this guy had a large 6' coachwhip for sell...I ask him if it bit and he said no..no..that it was dog tame. I told him if it didn't bite I would purchase it from him...well after he removed it from the container and him receiving about four or five bites later I decided to pass on the deal!!! I have seen some tame coachwhips...but not to many. LOL Good luck with them though...they are awsome looking animals. Have you been able to get them to breed yet?

Dan

18 eggs a year...

feeding on? And I would assume the cpative born adjust to captivity much easier then the wild caught adults. Do the eggs need to be incubated at a much higher temp.?

Dan

the adults I have only eat white sm. adult mice and egg temps can go higher than ratsnakes but you go too high and you kinked tails and all males so I keep then around 83* with a cooling at night.

Those are awesome!!! I've always loved coachwhips. What size cage or enclosure do you use for the adults? I've never kept one because I was never sure if I would be able to provide enough space for them? Kevin

cage size is 48" x 24" x 24" with a 8" x 12" vent at each end, three inch deep bedding and 12" x 14" heat pad under cage at end opposite side the hide box (12" x 14" x 4" is located, could put a heat lamp inside cage but I just use incandesant...

Nice!!! Thanks,Kevin

Hey Kevin...those pines are doing great. I've gotten eight young out of them the last two years.

Dan

Hi Dan...that's great news!!! I'm so glad they're producing young for you. Kevin

I attached three pics to the my last post, scroll down the page a bit..