Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We are considering adding a new species to our collection and really like the western hognoses.

I have seen on various websites that there are 3 types of western hognoses:

Plain
Dusty
Mexican

Generally, in the herp trade when they refer to a Western Hognose are they referring to a 'Plain' hognose?

Can you breed plains to dustys and dustys to mexicans and so forth?

What types of morphs are available, I've seen:
normals
axantics
reds
greens
albinos
red albinos
Paradoxes

What are some of the newer morphs?

Does anyone know any breeders of the reds, albinos and red albinos? I'd like to discuss specifics about these morphs as they are the most desirable to me.

You can email me directly if you like Mark@LHALegal.com, too.

Thanks for any help
Mark

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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs

Kenyan Sand Boa's
4.1 Rufescens
1.2 Albinos
0.5 Dodoma
2.1 Flame
2.5.8 Normal (orange)
3.4.10 Anery
0.1 Snow
2.2 Hopeful Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery
1.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
0.4 High Orange Tiger
2.2 High Orange
2.3 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
0.0.15 Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/

You will not be disappointed if you add some hogs to your collection... They are a really cool snake...

To answer some of your questions...

A plains hognose snake is Heterodon Nasicus which is the most commonly kept...

A dusty hognose ia also Heterodon nasicus... Some consider it as a subspecies so the name gloydi is added to the latin name...

I am not sure how widely accepted the subspecies is... It is separated only by slight pattern variation, and in most opinions it is not enough to grant it subspecies status...

The plains and the dusty frequently intergrade in their natural habitat...
When refering to the Western Hognose, this would include the Plains and the Dusty...

The Mexican hognose has been granted full species status... The latin is Heterodon kennerlyi... It was once considered a subspecies of H. nasicus but no longer are... There is much more than pattern variations that separate them from H. nasicus...

I gather that many of the captive born hogs in the states are a cross between the Plains and the Dusty...

In my opinion, Heterodon nasicus and Heterodon kennerlyi should not be cross bred in captivity... As stated, this is purely my opinion...

For morph info you can take a look at...

www.superconda.com
And for a really well put together morph guide go to...
www.cowtownreptiles.com/Morphs

Many of the breeders on this site breed what you are looking for... Btween all the great breeders on this site, it will not be hard for you to find awesome examples of the morphs you are looking for...

Hope this answers some of you questions...

We are considering adding a new species to our collection and really like the western hognoses.
Good choice. They are fast becoming a favorite in many collection.

I have seen on various websites that there are 3 types of western hognoses:

Plain
Dusty
Mexican
The Dusty Subspecies has been dissolved into Plains and both the Plains and Mexican have been elevated to species level.

Generally, in the herp trade when they refer to a Western Hognose are they referring to a 'Plain' hognose?
Yes.

Can you breed plains to dustys and dustys to mexicans and so forth?
Yes, but it is not accepted by allot breeders and keeper. They would be considered hybrids.

What types of morphs are available, I've seen:
normals
axantics
reds
greens
albinos
red albinos
Paradoxes

What are some of the newer morphs?
In addition to the morphs you mentioned;
Plains morphs.
Anaconda
Superconda
Spider
Jungle
Hypo
Caramel
Toffeebelly
Pink Pastels
Snows
And a buch of others I cant think of right now

Mexican morphs.
Axanthic
Blonde

Does anyone know any breeders of the reds, albinos and red albinos? I'd like to discuss specifics about these morphs as they are the most desirable to me.
There are allot of guys producing red albinos this year.
Myself (ulimatehognose.com)This site will be launched soon.
Brent(superconda.com)
Charles(hognosefarm.com)
Don(http://www.shoresenuffsnakes.com/)
Justin(Extemehogs.com)
And more.

-Jon

Thanks guys for all of your input.

Glad to see the Hognose forum at KS is just as helpful as the sandboa forum.

You said that breeding the Western to the Mexican would create a hybrid. Meaning, the offspring are infertile?

Can you tell me the major difference (not necessarily visual) between the Western and the Mexican? Why is cross breeding them frowned upon?

-----
Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs

Kenyan Sand Boa's
4.1 Rufescens
1.2 Albinos
0.5 Dodoma
2.1 Flame
2.5.8 Normal (orange)
3.4.10 Anery
0.1 Snow
2.2 Hopeful Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery
1.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
0.4 High Orange Tiger
2.2 High Orange
2.3 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
0.0.15 Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/

Glad to help.

A hybrid means its a cross between two species. It has nothing to do with the fertility of their offspring. Most of us are not fans of hybrids and that all it is, just opinions. I have a long list of reasons why I dont think its a good reason to do it, but I wont get into it here.

As far as differences go, The Mexicans have different scale counts, Their rostral scale is typically more pointed, they tend to stay smaller, their pattern is more bold and of higher contrast, and they usually have a bigger attitude. I'm sure there are other differences I forgot to mention, that someone else will add to this.

I will post some photos of some Plains and Mexicans tonight, so you can see them side be side.

-Jon

Actually with reptiles, hybrids have always proven to be fertile...

There are many differences between Westerns and Mexicans... Scale counts are different, patterns, behavior, and so on...

It is mostley frowned upon because many hognose breeders like to keep their mexican bloodlines pure... I happen to agree that it is better not to breed Mexicans and Westerns... But this is just my opinion...

From what I gather the cross between the two is rather drab looking anyway...

I AGREE WITH THE OTHER HOGNOSE BREEDERS , KEEP IT CLEAN...

...actors.

There's not much more information I can add to what the other guys have already said. All I can say is hognose snakes are the coolest snakes I have even kept.

You will love them. I guarantee it. If you don't love them just call me and I will gladly take them off your hands.

Couple examples for you. Toffee and Anaconda.

-----
Greg Bennett
520.Hognose (464.6673)

Which brings me to the Anacondas...

These guys are 'reduced' patterned hogs?

I saw some websites (mostly you guys here in the forum) and there is also a 'super' anaconda. What's the difference between the two?

I'm assuming they are a regularly new morph based on the price?

Where did the Anaconda come from?
-----
Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs

Kenyan Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
1.4 Albinos
1.5 Dodoma
1.0 Nuclear Meltdown
1.1 Flame
2.5.8 Normal (orange)
1.6.10 Anery
0.2 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery
1.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
1.2 High Orange
1.1 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
2.3 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
0.0.15 Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/

While I may not be quite together on all the terminology, my understanding is this:

The anaconda gene is co-dominant, meaning a snake that we would usually think of as het for a trait (i.e., only carrying one copy of the gene) exhibits the "anaconda" reduced patterning.

Superconda refers to a hog carrying two copies of the gene. I'm unsure if the het and homo forms of a co-dom trait are always different.

(In fact I don't know of another trait like this offhand--I think "Ultra" in cornsnakes is.)

http://www.superconda.com/ talks about where the trait came from and all.