Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I have been trying to leave these two girls alone since they were a little bit on the early side. Well tonight I figured I would let them swim around a bit to clean up and the Blood looked more like a blood today. The anery is doing pretty good, she will have a big scar where her "belly button" is but pretty good overall. They are both a little fiesty, which should be a good sign.




-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

Hey Bob, now that looks like a Blood boa, big congrats again ... and welcome to the Blood boa breeders club

cheers, John

-----
John Berry
Designer Morphs, 2nd edition - totally updated, hardback edition due May 2010.

Thanks again John,
Its nice to be in the Blood Boa breeding Club...
Even if it was kind of a fluke! Id rather be lucky than good any day.
-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

Congrats!!! She's a beautiful Blood Boa. Fresh blood as well. You're gonna love working with these guys. For the life of me, I can't understand why these aren't more popular. Wait until the Kahl Bloody Albinos and Sunglows come out this summer. Bloods rock! Best of luck. Mike Panichi
-----
Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

Thanks mike,
I am pretty excited about her. I have been wanting a blood/pewter for at least 6 or 7 years. To actually get one by.producing my own and have it be some "fresh blood" is a dream.
Thanks again
-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

The original litter of Blood Boas was produced by a Boa owned by Ron St. Pierre. I can't remember for sure, but I think she was a wild caught gravid import. That litter was produced way back in around 1994. Something like that. A long time ago. That litter contained both Bloods and Anerys. I'm surprised how many people don't know about that. Which brings me to my way out there little speculation about the Blood Boas...

Now that a second and completely unrelated bloodline of Boa Constrictor has popped out a Blood AND an Anerythristic in the same litter, I am wondering, out loud and publicly, if somehow the Blood mutation and the Anery mutation are somehow connected... Not that they both seem to impact red production, but something more than that. How could they be so different and yet seem to gather in at least two examples so closely together. I wonder if whatever causes the Blood mutation is likely to trip something somehow and make the Anery mutation. HHhhmmm... Things to ponder...

Also, if you haven't thought about it yet... you people that have bought Marron bloodline animals just might want to think about breeding one of them to an Anery or a Ghost... I wonder...
-----
Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Good Insight Jeff,
I have also pondered that exact same thought. Even before this litter....
But, after this litter, I have pondered it even more. Because if the anery and blood gene are completely separate, what would the odds of two farm bred Nicaraguans carrying both traits....
Unless, the individuals responsible for what is going on in the "Farm" where they Collect/breed the Nicaraguans were purposefully putting these wild caught "morphs" together in hopes that the offspring would carry a visible trait making them worth more money here in the states...
Look how much Hypo Nics and anerys were selling for a couple of years ago, quite a premium compared to $10 normals....

Definitely food for thought....
-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

The Pewter Boas are Anery type II I believe aren't they ?

Bobs Anery really looks more like a Type I to me

If it is type I this will affect the compatibility with other Pewter Boas.

OFF Topic a little but . . .

The Aztecs have an Anery line connected with them as well correct ?

I'll be going somewhere with this thought later in the Future

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I am wondering, out loud and publicly, if somehow the Blood mutation and the Anery mutation are somehow connected... Not that they both seem to impact red production, but something more than that. How could they be so different and yet seem to gather in at least two examples so closely together. I wonder if whatever causes the Blood mutation is likely to trip something somehow and make the Anery mutation. HHhhmmm... Things to ponder...

>>Jeff Ronne Sr
>>The Boaphile

Hey Jeff, yes that makes total sense genetically ... heres how:

The blood boa mutation is caused by excessive production of red (erythrophore) pigmentation. Like all chromatophore, pigment containing cells, they can mutate in three separate ways – a total lack of, in this case that would be anerythristic, reduced function or amount and lastly increased production, which is what we see in blood boas (and possibly marron boas as well).

So to answer your question, yes the anery and blood mutations are linked, they are in fact direct oppositions of each other! So what does this mean when we see both in the same litter, apart from d/hets, which could be as Bob suggests, the “farms” in Nicaragua are doing what the “farms” in Africa are doing (with ball pythons). Holding back the better looking snakes and breeding them? Or there could be another answer as the mutations are indeed linked.

cheers, John
-----
John Berry
Designer Morphs, 2nd edition - totally updated, hardback edition due May 2010.

I know I havent been doing the boas for as long as some of you guys but I have been breeding snakes for a long time and I see it this way. Its not much more complicated than this....Since Anery was in there from the beginning, simply enough, its ran through without being controlled from day one, and popped up from time to time. It will continue to do so. The farm thing?? Do we really know where they are getting their snakes from? Really? In my book, if anerys and bloods are popping up in the same litter, the parents are het for both and thats that. Breed an anery male to her you'll get anerys, a blood male you'll get bloods. Nothing crazy should happen. I bred a male Blood to a Ghost last year and got no Anerys and no Bloods. A similiar Anery thing happened years ago with a certain(I wont blow him up but every one knows) cornsnake breeder. Anery was popping up all over his collection in every morph. Worse yet, it was popping up in everyone who purchased snakes from him(which was like everyone) The only difference was when pressed, his answer was and I quote "I don't believe I have to tell people what snakes are het for, why would I give them a jump start at something I am trying to produce or producing" The point is, regardless of how or why....it was there from the beginning, went uncontrolled and ran through his collection. I think that is what we are seeing with these bloods. Just my opinion though. I have Johns Blood on a Hypo het for blood which is also possible het Anery which was produced by Dayle Speklin. I believe her father was one of the originals from Ron St. Pierre. I'll post any odd results but truthfully, Im expecting Bloods and Hypo Bloods Hypos and Hets and nothing else. Anyway, its a good discussion. Mike Panichi
-----
Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

Mike there are Anery Type I and Anery type II Boas the two Anery
types are not compatible with each other
I believe in most cases

Most Ghost Boas are Colombian Anery Type I

Many / most( I believe) Anery C.A. Boas are type II Anery, Pewter Boas if I'm not completely confused have been
produced from the Type II Anery strain

I've been under the impression the Ron St. Pierre Blood Boa Bloodline is carrying the Type II Anery gene
( if I'm wrong someone needs to correct me )

My point here is if you are breeding a Blood that is het for Type II anery to a Ghost that is type I Anery

You are right nothing special will happen

Although if you breed a Blood het for Type II anery to a
Type II Anery Ghost something special will happen

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Hey Lars. I understand about the anerys. I'm not saying what Jeff is implying is impossible. What I am saying is that because it went unchecked from the start, it may be nothing more than a rogue anery gene. What breedings can we do to prove it one way or another? Thanks. Mike Panichi
-----
Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

Sorry Mike didn't mean to address you as if you didn't understand your own projects
I wasn't sure exactly what you meant.

I was thinking about this on the way back from confession and
realized I made a mistake and misunderstood
what you were saying

You are completely right it could be a rogue

The original Fem could either have been Het Anery either because
the 2 traits are tied together so to speak or because
just had that gene passed on to her.

Also the father (?wild?) of the orig litter may have been Anery or Het Anery

So he could have contributed the Anery Gene to those first babies

I don't know how many litter the Orig fem had or if anybody
tracked who , where & what with the babies

I don't know if Ron made a 2nd litter and what he used to do it?

There are so many unknowns here for me

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Then what if... If they are related and are actually the exact same gene like Sharps and BW Caramels. Then are the Pewters simply the Paradigm version of the Blood/Type II Anery?

How is that for a monkey wrench Larry?

Further. If that is the case, then a Pewter could not produce "Double Het" for Pewter babies. Only 50% Possible het for Blood and 50% possible het for Type II Anery. A Pewter bred to a Blood would make half a litter of Bloods and Pewters and the person that did that would think that the blood just happened to be het for Type II Anery if they didn't consider this crazy possibility. Has that breeding been done yet by anyone?

I am NOT speculating that that is the case. Just tossing that crazy possibility out there. The fact that now two of the three bloodlines of "Blood" Boas out there have had an Anery in the same first litter is just a crazy coincidence! Crazy!
-----
Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

I will admit, the fact that all three lines have had anerys is weird in itself. Interesting points Jeff. What breedings would have to be done to prove what? Thanks. Mike Panichi
-----
Honesty is my only policy
www.mikepanicreptiles.com

Again, I don't think this is how it is at all. I just don't know.

I do know that a Pewter to Pewter breeding would prove it though. If they are separate genes, as is the case with every other simple recessive except Paradigm Boas, you would get all Pewters. If it's the same gene and the "Paradigm" equivalent, you would get 50% Pewters, 25% Bloods and 25% Type II Anerys. That would prove it.

I wonder if anyone has ever done that breeding.

If the Type II Anery and the related Blood mutation are on different genes, the Pewter to Blood breeding would make all Blood Boas that are all Het for Type II Anery. That would prove they are on different genes.

I wonder if anyone has ever done that breeding with that result.

If the Type II Anery and the related Blood mutation are on the same gene, the Pewter to Blood breeding would make half a litter of Blood Boas and half a litter of Type II Anerys. That breeding would not prove it though because it would remain possible that the the Blood was actually Het Type II Anery.

I wonder if anyone has done that breeding with that result.

My head hurts from trying to think this through and I don’t own a Pewter or a Type II Anery… LOL I hope I got all that right.
-----
Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Yep its in the percentages and I don't know what Pewter related
breeding have or haven't been done

Its not really my area, but its really interesting

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

As far as I know the original blood boas are Type I anery and comaptible with the colombian anery gene. Bill Kirby could shed more light on this one way or another as I believe he's proven that through breeding a blood with a colombian ghost. I've also worked with Nicaraguan's for quite a while and am still not convinced what I call "blacktails" and everyone else calls Type II are actually anery!! I'm still looking for the Type II snow or the Type II ghost................without the ability to produce snows and ghosts I'm not willing to call them anery's. The type II sure look anery but you have to ask yourself why hasn't anyone produced a Type II snow or Type II ghost. I know I've tried and have been unsuccessful and I know the Type II snows have had many litters produced where a Type II snow should have popped up. Of course, I may just be swimming upstream again!!! LOL
-----
Tom Burke
www.BurkeReptiles.com

Tom I produced a type II ghost from a hypo het type II ghost I purchased from you bred to a farmed type II anery female. I produced type II anerys and hypos as well.

-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

Type II and Hypos

Type II anery mom

Hypo Dh type II ghost breeding Type II anery (produced babies above)



-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe you told me the parents to the Hypo Het Type II Anery (ghost) I bought from you was produced by breeding a male hypo het type I anery to a female "blacktail" or Type II anery. We discussed the possibilities on the phone a few times. I had alway intended on breeding the male I bought from you to a "farm Bred" Type II anery in order to produce type II ghost.
Im just trying to understand what you mean when you say there has not been a type II Ghost produced. Are you saying that the Type II Ghost pictured in my other post is not a Type II Ghost, so is it a Type I ghost? And if that is the case how did I produced type II/blacktail anerys in the litter, or are those now considered Type I? Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to clarify this as I have been working these projects for a very long time..
Thanks in advance
Bob
-----
Robert McPhee
www.BBCExotics.com

Amazing litter-I've said it before and I'll say it again. WE ARE NOT THE FIRST CIVILIZATION TO BREED BOA CONSTRICTORS FOR LOOKS!!!!!! I guess it is going to acually require finding a 3 or 4 morph combo in the wild before that consept takes.There are just tooo many odd genes in Central American and Columbian types for it to be coincidence. Very beautiful- keep us updated!