Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Before anything else, let me say I am only asking about Pine bedding, not Cedar. I'm well aware of the problems Cedar might cause. Just curious about Pine.

Has anyone here had personal experience using Pine bedding for either rodents or reptiles? Not "friend of a friend said" that it causes sores, but your own personal experience.

I know of one breeder who keeps their ASF colony on Pine shavings with no noticeable ill effects. If possible, I would be elated to make the change also for my ASFs and possibly mice.

Has anyone here used Pine? Has anyone here seen for themselves issues pine bedding may/may not cause in reptiles and rodents?
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I use pine bedding for my rodents. I hear occasional sneezing when I get a particularly dusty bag-other than that I've not seen any I'll effects.
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Snakes:
1.1 gray banded kingsnake
1.1 california kingsnake
1.1 kenyan sand boa
1.1 western hognose snake
0.1 albino checkered garter
1.0 florida blue garter
1.1 het anery red sided garter
1.1 reverse oketee corn snake
1.1 blood red corn snake
0.1 amel striped corn
1.0 amel 66% het striped corn
1.1 het albino ball python
1.1 het ghost ball python
0.1 spider ball python
1.0 pastel ball python
1.1 mojave ball python
1.0 butter ball python
0.1 ringer ball python
1.0 African dinker ball python
0.3 normal ball python
1.0 piebald ball python
0.1 het piebald ball python
0.1 Genetic Stripe Ball Python
1.0 Het Genetic Stripe Ball Python
0.1 Mystic Ball Python

Turtles
1-eastern box turtle
2-spotted turtle
2-eastern/midland painted turtle intergrade
1.0-common musk turtle
1-Pink bellied sideneck
6-Northern red belly

Invertebrates
0.1 southern black widow
1-Tanzanian Giant Tailless whipscorpion

Amphibians
0.1 Ornate Horned Frog

Birds:
1.1 red avadavit
2-blue breasted cordon blue
1.1-black cheeked waxbill
0.1-star finch
1.0-Java rice sparrow
2.0-owl finch
1.0-hybrid munia
0.1-White bellied caique

Fish
2-corydoras cats
1-African upside down cat

normal stuff
0.1 black lab

I have been using pine shavings for my rodents for the last 3 yrs with no problems. I breed mice and rats mainly but also bred gerbils and asf's for a short time.
I am also located in Nebraska and you can find it pretty reasonable if you go to the feed stores.

That is exactly why I was curious. Not only is it cheaper, it smells nicer, doesn't mold as quickly, and makes better mulch (I mulch most rodent bedding in the summer). Thank you.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I use pine for my rats. Snakes are kept on Aspen. No ill effects after 2 years.
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
3.0 Crazy Dogs and 2.0 cats
Some Tropical Fish
...........and growing!

I use aspen now, but as a kid I used pine bedding for my collection of Ratsnakes, Corns, and Kings. I never had any problems with sores or respiratory problems. I switched to aspen 5 or so years ago and now only use it, paper towels, and sometimes newspaper.

I keep my rats in the freezer....

I used pine shavings for two years before moving to aspen shavings. When I used pine, I found that most, if not all rats developed respiratory issues. The litters were also smaller, and "sickly".
I would not recommend pine.
Spring for the extra buck or two per bale and use aspen or better yet, $3-$4 and spoil them with Beta Chip;
far superior product to anything I've ever used and I've gone through 4-5 different beddings in 10 years.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

were you getting allergies from the pine as well? if i remember correctly didn't you post a thread on here about dust and dander?

....on how you were afraid it's affects will take on your health?

Pitoon

>>I used pine shavings for two years before moving to aspen shavings. When I used pine, I found that most, if not all rats developed respiratory issues. The litters were also smaller, and "sickly".
>>I would not recommend pine.
>>Spring for the extra buck or two per bale and use aspen or better yet, $3-$4 and spoil them with Beta Chip;
>>far superior product to anything I've ever used and I've gone through 4-5 different beddings in 10 years.
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>>www.strictlyballs.ca
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Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

Yes, I did post an inquiry regarding (human) health issues regarding breeding rats and their allergens/respiratory issues, but I have not used pine for roughly 6 or so years. Aspen and now Beta Chip.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

I used pine as the bedding for both my rodents and reptiles for many years in the 90s. With that said with the risk how ever small of problems I wouldn't recommend using it for either for long term. In studies with rabbits pine raised liver enzyme levels in rabbits, to what ill effect I am unsure.

The main issue with cedar and pine being used as a bedding is the toxic oils (basically what gives cedar and pine their particular smell) are an irritant and reduce the lifespan of rodents due to the toxic effects it causes, forcing lungs etc. to work harder to remove the toxins from the blood. Cedar is worse because it has a far stronger scent and level of these oils than most pine.

Pine is the lesser of two evils as it doesn't have as many of these oils naturally occuring as cedar does, thus the effects are not as noticeable. However if you purchase kiln dried pine shavings, most of the toxic oils are gone, reducing the piny smell considerably. Or if its given a chance to air out before use.

For feeder rodents who we don't expect to live long enough to notice a shortening of their natural life span (most felt mice and rats only live 2-3 years but when not kept on cedar or pine, they can live significantly longer, 3-4 years for mice and even as long as 5 years for rats. These of course are not used for back to back breeding as most feeder rodents are, which also reduces total lifespan for the females.)

the only other concern is the oils from cedar and pine do get onto the rodent's fir and thus are injested by the snake in turn. These oils, especially from cedar are toxic to snakes and can cause various issues in the long run. Hence its best to use hardword based shavings (ie aspen, beta chips, carefresh (a paper pulp product) etc.) instead.
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PHLdyPayne

I have had gerbils and asf's for two years and have used pine for 80% of that and aspen for the other twenty. I have never noticed a difference with the health of the rodents while using either substrate.

I have a question for you. I have no local source for lab blocks as of now. I am taking a trip to Lincoln next week and was wondering if you know of any fed stores that keep something in stock.
Thanks

Thanks for the advice, I might just use either a mix of woods or switch between pine and aspen occasionally. Will obviously stop using Pine altogether if I notice a difference.

I don't use lab blocks for my ASFs or mice. I use a combination of good'ol cheap dog food and random grains/cereals. I don't know of any local feed stores that keep large bags of rodent chow on hand in Lincoln, but I could ask around.

There is yet another person who maintains a large colony of rodents in Omaha who has designed his own rodent block and orders it by the palate. You might be able to purchase some from him if you are interested.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Thats what i'm doing now. Dog food, seeds, cheerios and leftover bread. And they seem happy and have lots of babies.

I'm building a rack and think it will be less work to pile the lab block over the 1/2" hardware cloth tops. I will find out from the local feed store if they can order some. If not and you know of somebody in Omaha I will get back to you. I'll be going to the show on the 19th.

BTW, do you know the guy at the mattress store downtown in Lincoln?
He has a female pastel that is just what I am looking for.

Thanks

There are 2 places you can get large bags of rodent chow one in Lincoln and one in Omaha.
I can email you the stores and there numbers.

rats, mice, gerbils, ASFR,russian hamster, chinese hamster,pygmy mice,zebra mice (long ago) spiny mice , degus, syrian hamsters, hedgehogs, chinchillas, Peromyscus mice, ferrets, .......

I have always used pine for these all

......I have friends that have used pine for snakes....even $10,000 snakes.....................

..........pine.....there is different types....I personally hate the smell of southern pine.....stinks.....I prefer the pines I get from Canada and Maine.....there was a company in MD too that had fair smelling stuff....

...I just got a bale of peat .....we'll see how that goes....LOL
(snakes)
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......JY

We have always used pine for the rodents, and had nothing but success. Our rats are throwing an average litter of 14 and our mice are ridiculous. Like others are saying, we get the occasional sneezing from a really dusty bag, but that's what the industrial exhaust fans are for. And, I'm thinking since we're producing a couple thousand rats a month, if we were going to have problems with pine...after 7 years, we wouldve had them by now.

I use pine with no problems. It hides the smell pretty well and lasts a while.

For the other question, I use sow chow in rodent sized blocks from a local feed store. That works great also.