Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I used to buy this product for my male cat I had. It was this natural good bacteria/enzyme stuff that would neutralize his scent because he would mark on things. But it would also eat the and break down the fecal matter. Enzymes

Odor reducing remedies...

Here are a few home remedies that some people have found useful:

Vinegar and Baking Soda - First soak up as much of the urine as you can, then soak the area with a mixture of 1/3 cup of white vinegar with 2/3 cup of water and a little soap. With a clean rag, soak up any excess liquid pressing firmly and repeatedly until dry. Repeat this process using fresh water, and then use another rag to soak up the remaining liquid. After this, sprinkle some baking soda on the area and vaccuum up in 24 hours.

Peroxide - Some people claim peroxide works well in cleaning up cat urine and stains, though this can be tricky on surfaces which might discolor easily. Supposedly, peroxide breaks down the components in the cat urine which cause stains and odor. Pour a small amount directly on the area and allow to dry. Then rinse with warm water and soak up with a rag or paper towel.

Listerine Mouthwash - A number of people claim this helps eliminate cat urine odors when a few drops are added to your water & vinegar solution, or when mixed with a peroxide solution. It can also be mixed with just hot water and dabbed on the area. Most likely this is because of the amount of alcohol in Listerine.

Here is my plan of action...

PEROXIDE/BAKING SODA scrub out enclosure

then

WHITE VINEGAR AND LIME JUICE wipe out enclosures

This should neutralize odor and some of the enzymes (vinegar/lime or lemon juice) may be beneficial in destroying bacteria build up etc.

I also use a diluted bleach solution and soak all furniture one a week or once every other week. And scrub everything as well with rubber gloves. So using the white vinegar and lime juice may be good here also.

The worst enemy a reptile keeper has is feces matter.

Keep parasites in check!

Vinegar/lime doesn't do anything really against bacteria to my knowledge. What it does is neutralize ammonia which is contained in mammal urine. (can't remember if ammonia is part of the liquid waste material in urine or is produced by urine being broken down by other things (ie bacteria). Ammonia is a base, vinegar/lime/lemon juice is an acid and breaks down ammonia by neutralizing it.

Bacteria may very well die in a highly acidic environment but I don't think vinegar etc. is strong enough to do it for all bacteria types. It certainly cuts odor but I wouldn't rely on it as a disinfectant/antibacterial product for cage cleaning.

Baking soda is alright to absorb odors but definitely not something to 'dust' the cage with, if the intention is to leave it in. The 'bubbling' action baking soda does when mixed with water certainly can help 'lift' dirt to make cleaning easier, but again I don't think it does anything to kill bacteria.

A good cleaning monthly with either a bleach solution or other antibiotic/disinfectant cleaner and daily spot cleaning is more than enough to reduce odors in reptile cages. There is a product used in many vet clinics who's name eludes me right now, is also a good product to use as it comes in large jugs and once diluted with water, makes a great spot cleaner (I think its something like one part of the cleaner to hundred parts water) and in a slightly stronger solution, as a monthly (or bi-monthly as preferred). This product is called Ivec something or Inovect... sorry, just can't remember the name now.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the reply...

*I didnt make this a hot topic by the way...
not sure how it got that designation*

If I could take my dragons out and set off a small nuclear warhead in their enclosures I would do that. Then return them to make sure there were no microbes etc anywhere.

I wouldnt leave any baking soda in there. The enzymes in the lime juice/vinegar breaking down and neutralizing the bacteria buildup is what Im looking for as well as something that I can leave trace amounts of in the enclosures and not have to worry about the dragons being negatively impacted in any way.

I do a delousing with a diluted bleach solution currently and plan to keep doing that but then may try a little backing soda peroxide scrub followed by a rubbing alcohol chaser and then the lime/vinegar after wipe-out session.

What do you think would be good to treat the dragons with? I was thinking that they must get pathogens and bacteria built up on their bodies from the occasional run ins they have in poo.

I have even considered an enclosure setup with a chickenwire false bottom where the poo can drop though to the bottom. But I would want my dragons on the wire getting twisted up in it.

The worst thing I cant stand is my dragons with feces anywhere near them or on them. It is disturbing to me.

I used to keep them in sand but I found out that sand was a haven for bacteria. No matter how good you think you scoop etc. Even their skin falling off in the sand provides chum for bacteria and fecal matter particulate is always remaining in the sand.

I much prefer the newspaper and I use a shop vac with constant upkeep. I want my dragons to kept in a sterile laboratory like environment.

I detest fecal particulate anywhere near me dragons!!

What is a good way to treat/wash the dragons? What soap and after spray can I use to keep the parasites at bay?

Personally I think you are being way too obsessive about sterilizing the dragon's cage and the dragon. A healthy dragon is naturally resistant to bacteria, it is only when their immunity system is weakened they are unable to effectively fight off infections or parasites. Things that can weaken their immunity system would be improper husbandry (ie temperatures too low, humidity too high or too low (should be around 50-60% on average), improper diet etc.) High levels of stress or consistent stress can also weaken their immunity system.

Daily spot cleaning or changing of substrates like paper towel (can't remember what you use for substrate) with a monthly or bi-weekly wash down of the entire cage with a bleach solution (after a simple soap/water wash to remove any dirt, poop etc that may be stuck on surfaces)will be enough to ensure bacteria doesn't build up in the cage.

If your dragon runs through her poop before you can clean it up, just give her a bath in luke warm water. A soft toothbrush can be used with a mild soap (like Ivory,unscented) to remove dirt/poo from between scales etc.

When I do this I let the dragon soak for about 10 minutes first, then use the toothbrush on her tail, vent area and feet. She doesn't particularly like it, but I do it in small steps, leaving her a chance to rest before cleaning the next part. Then I dry her off gently with a towel designated for that purpose then set her under her basking lamp to warm up again. Best to do this when there is a few hours before lights off so they can heat up sufficiently.

In my view a too sterile environment can be just as harmful as a not so clean enclosure. A healthy dragon exposed to a minor bacterial infection will naturally fight it off and produce anti-bodies which remain in the dragon, so they can more easily fight off the same bacteria if they come across it again. If they are kept completely isolated from any bacteria, then they don't' build up this resistance and can be harder hit, should they become infected with something later on.

I certainly applaud your efforts to ensure your dragon is healthy and never gets sick, but they don't need to live in a 100% sterile environment to live a long and healthy life.
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PHLdyPayne

Thank you for the well written response...

I disagree with you to a small extent.

No matter what efforts you take in the captive environment you will not be able to produce a totally sterile enclosure for the dragon. My aspirations are whimsical more than anything...

In the wild the dragons are defecating, moving, and have an enormous expanse where they are not then exposed to their own fecal matter/particulate. Plus, the rain is essentially cleansing the fecal matter and it is exposed to other creatures/microbes that will also aid in it's rapid decay.

In the captive environment they literally poop where they eat, the feeders (roaches crickets insects) are kept where they can digest fecal matter, they shed their skin and often eat it which often has traces of fecal matter and fecal particulate also.

Sand harbors microbes. I spot check constantly give baths with tooth brushes etc and use newspaper.

I dont believe even a healthy dragon is armed with the ability to defend itself at the microorganism level against threats that are as relentless and potentially harmful as these pathogens and parasites.

I just assume to take as many precautions as possible.

My efforts are to fight the microbes at their own level using enzymes to create a mild resistance. The high acidic nature of vinegar and lime-juice are enzymes that create a microbial barrier. Im sure it's not fail proof but it is an extra defense.

I use the diluted bleach once a week, the spot cleaning constatly etc. I pull out all the furniture and soak it in diluted bleach, I soak them and scrub them with a tooth brush etc etc.

Once Im done with the diluted bleach cleaning... (I just bought today a gallon of white vinegar and lemon juice.) I plan to use a spray bottle and wipe the enclosures out with the vinegar/lemon juice after wards and wipe up but not dry it super dry.

I believe the lemon juice/vinegar will be a good measure to add also into my husbandry.

I may even do a diluted vinegar/lemon water spray for the dragons post bath-time.

What do you think about that? I think it will leave a small measure of bacterial microbe protection on the dragon also. And a diluted solution I dont think will cause any adverse affects.

My dragons are eating and pooping machines.

I just cant see them wallowing, pooping, and eating in the same small area day in day out.

It seams to be unsanitary to me.

true, in a captive environment there is a greater chance for the dragon to run through its own poo. In the wide they have much more space than we provide in captivity, but they are also exposed to far more bacteria and parasites etc every day as well.

The big risk is cross-contamination and re-contamination in the captive environment. If poop isn't cleaned daily, dragons can easily get in contact with bacteria in their own poop or parasites and with prolonged exposure (ie if the tank isn't clean for days or more) this can cause a buildup of bacteria and parasites in the dragon which will overload its natural defenses.

I certainly don't think poop should be left in the cage after being spotted. If it is smeared around then complete cleaning of substrate and a dragon bath is best thing to do. Regular spot cleaning is essential for dragons, especially babies who may poop several times a day Adults tend to poop less often, depending on the individual dragon and amount of food eaten etc. My dragon poops about once a week, despite having plenty of fluid and no signs of constipation (when she does poop though, its a real pile, and of the right consistency so I know she's not dehydrated or constipated). Fortunately I am almost always at home and discover her 'surprise' within minutes of her having it, so clean up is done before she has a chance to run through it. However sometimes she run through it anyway and I immediately give her a bath and change all the bedding instead of just the area she pooped on. Its very easy for me to see if she stepped in her poop on the substrate I use, for I see dirty paw prints all over.

So far I haven't had any health issues with her or my past dragon(who I had to sell when I moved from my old home to here.) I also don't leave insects running in the cage and rarely feed crickets to my adult dragon. I typically give her superworms ontop of her salad, or silkworms, hornworms or butterworms, if I happen to get a chance to buy any.

I keep my reptiles as clean as needed, and wash out the cages monthly. My snakes get their cages cleaned every time they poop, as I just use paper towel with them and its far easier to change it all than just one area. Though most times the fluids get spread around by the paper towel as it absorbs.

Your cleaning methods certainly aren't wrong, just seem more than necessary to me. But, as there are many different ways to keep bearded dragons in conditions that meet their needs (ie different substrates, different temperature ranges, supplementing D3 only with no UVB, providing UVB rays and occasional supplemental D3 etc.) your method certainly won't hurt your dragon as far as I can tell, other than what I have mentioned before. As you say it is impossible to eliminate all traces of bacteria, unless you set up a clean room for your dragons (as they do in hospitals for quarantine/immunity compromised patients) there isn't too much likelihood the dragon's immunity system will be compromised.

The real important thing is your dragon is eating, growing and thriving. The rest is just personal preferences
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PHLdyPayne

My dragons are still young and growing.

They poop once a day sometimes more. Once they are fully matured and their growth rate has stablized, they eat a bit less become a bit more sedentary and poop a bit less.

My problem is that I will be gone on certain days for nearly the entire day on occasions. If I could spot check constantly it would be ideal but that is not possible.

The younger dragons are eating and pooping machines. They tare up my roaches, greens, and crickets.

I have been feeding my dragons raw green beans, out of all the greens Ive tried... they seem to like these the best. (lots of other greens too)

thank you for the great responses

Would the disinfectant you're referring to be Nolvasan? This can be purchased in gal. sizes and diluted. When diluted, this product can last a relatively long time and is absolutely safe to use around animals, cage furniture, and the cage itself.

Hope this helps...

Thanks, Teresa

http://www.allivet.com/NOLVASAN-SURGICAL-p/aap322.htm

That stuff is pretty expensive... about 100$ for a gallon.

http://www.baneclene.com/catalog/microban.html

This product is 28$ per gallon and touts to have some antimicrobial properties.

I was thinking of this stuff though initially:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I6NF6W/ref=asc_df_B000I6NF6W1075782?smid=A2701FG002WN6Z&tag=pgmp-05-17-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000I6NF6W

Either one of these products would offer some microbial/bacteria protection in enclosures for dragons.

I will be ordering one of these products once I can research a little bit more.

They both seem to be fairly safe products.

I may even add some of this (a diluted amount) and use it as an after bath mist when I dry my dragons... giving them a small coating to ensure a measure of protection on their bodies.

But a spay bottle with some of this on tiles and for cleaning enclosures would be awesome!!!

I would still do a diluted bleach water cleaning also, and just add this stuff into my cleaning regimen.

I just buy from Lowes or Home Depot their spray bottles they have.

I fill those with the cleaning solution and write on them with perm marker what they are and keep them for my enclosures.

The one (Anti Icky Poo) from Amazon is about 30 bucks per gallon and looks like decent stuff. Im ordering one of these products later today.

I will let you know after some research which one I choose and why.

I may check at my local pet store and see what they have there today too. Im pretty sure they have similar products.

Bactericide

A bactericide is an agent that KILLS bacteria, a group of one-celled, vegetable microorganisms that lack the green pigment chlorophyll.

400,000,000 of bacteria cells are the same size as a single grain of granulated sugar.

Bactericides must be registered with the EPA.

This product looks good too actually:

http://www.baneclene.com/catalog/QGC.html

Yes Teresa that is the product I was trying to remember the name for. Thanks for guessing it
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PHLdyPayne

... to my little friend.

"an anti-pathogenous soldier in full battle rattle"

Dreamworks,you post a lot of interesting info and food for thought,but this is one of the first times that I've read a post that made me laugh out loud...you,Sir,are a hoot !Thanks for the thought provoking info,and for the entertainment.

Thank you madame...

glad I could provide some comic/bacterial relief.

"in full biohazard regalia"

Went to order the microban 1 gallon for 28 dollars just now...

the shipping is 22 dollars.

Im not paying that much for shipping so Im going to look around local in some of the shops and at a few stores etc and see what I can find.

Literally...

Just watched my one shedding dragon eat some of his sheds.

This other stuff may not require dilution, but I am not familiar with microban so don't know if its in a concentrated form like Nolvasan (one gallon makes something like 100 gallons of solution (if I am remembering correctly you mix one part Nolvasan to 100 parts water...will have to research this again). SO even though it may cost $100 per gallon, it is worth it in the long run.

If Microban is already diluted, then its not really a 'bargain' when you think you would need to buy ten times or more of it to match the volume Nolvasan produces when you dilute it. Nolvasan is also used by most veterinarians and other animal clinics (and I think even human hospitals too) for disinfecting and killing micro-organisms. You should be able to find it at any medical supply store in your area.

One last point, it isn't a good idea to spray cleaning solutions onto your dragon. It could damage their skin or get into their eyes/mouths and cause irritations. They may also end up inhaling the spray particles as well.

If you really want to disinfect your dragon time to time, try a Betadine soak. Its an antibiotic/disinfectant liquid and if you dilute it in water till it looks like weak tea...you can soak your dragon for 5-10 minutes. Its recommended to use as a soak for snakes who have a bad mite infection (it disinfects all the mite bite wounds) though its recommended with snakes, to soak them in plain water first for about 5 minutes or so to give them time to drink...then put them in a Betadine solution bath. This is to avoid the snakes (or lizard) from drinking any of the solution. You can also consult with your vet for suggestions on safe ways to keep your dragon clean.
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PHLdyPayne