Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i am helping a friend out with feeding a yearling RT boa..
is has been refusing often.. it currently weighs 220 grams @ 28-29" long.. i have seen many others from this litter and they are doing wonderfully..

feeding history:
10-28-09 got back from pet shop
10-28-09 ate 2 lg mice, assist
11-7-09 ate 1 lm mouse, assist
11-18-09 ate 2 lg mice, assist
12-?-09 nothing recorded in her records
1-2-10 refused
1-20-10 refused
1-31-10 ate 2 rat pups, assist
2-14-10 refused
3-5-10 ate 2 rat pups, assist
4-17-10 refused (i personally tried to feed)
4-18-10 weigh & measured for my records

i keep records on my personal snake of their sheds and poops as well.. she does not, so i do not know.. only what i was able to find looking thur her records yesterday..

i have tried assist feeding, put the rodent in the cage over night, in a feeding bin and left alone and it will not eat.. it is not in a shed either and eyes are clear.. no mites either.. i do not know about if they did any fecal on this boa.. i am calling the vet in the morning to see if she has any record of one..

any hints, tips or suggestion to try to get this boa to eat..?

and if someone tells me to put it down.. do me a favor, do not even bother.. i am NOT putting this boa down.. i will do everything i can to get it to eat so it can survive..

thank you for any help ya'll can offer.
Cilene
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

I think you underestimate how long a boa can go without eating... It's seems to me that eating has become a stressful event for this snake from day one with all the "force" feeding... That should always be a last resort! Give it good temps fresh water, good humidity and a tight hide. Leave it alone for 3-4 weeks put a small prey item, like a hopper, in with it... Leave it be and wait for it to eat on it's own
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06
0.2 h albino
07
0.1 dh snow
0.2 leticia
1.1 triple het
0.1 albino h snow
08
2.1 hypo hog
0.1 sunset
1.0 ghost
0.1 arabesque dh stripe alb
1.1 h type 2 anery
0.1 pastel motley
0.1 leticia
1.0 hypo ph bloody sharp
0.2 ph bloody sharp
1.0 h blood
0.1 sunglow poss super
1.2 anery h snow
0.2 albino h snow
1.1 50% guyana h albino
0.1 triple het
0.1 ghost h albino
1.0 jungle h anery ph albino
0.1 pastel het albino
09
1.1 dh blizzard
0.1 h albino
0.1 jungle h albino
1.0 motley h albino ph snow
1.0 albino h snow
1.0 anery h snow
1.1 hypo dh stripe albino
and 25 balls

thank you for your reply..

i am just going to continue with weighing him each week and offering him a meal.. as long as he is not loosing weight..

going to make a vet appt for him as well..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

Not sure what could be wrong with your Boa I will say that we have 2 Boas that just will not eat until they are ready, we try every week and when they dont we just feed the rat to another Boa. Sometimes you just get a snake that is picky i guess. Keep at it and don't give up. Be patient i know it's frustrating sometimes but when they are hungry they will eat.

Hopefully it's nothing medically wrong with the Boa and just the old picky eater. Good Luck.
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Our Collection

thank you for your reply..

i hope he does not have anything medically wrong with him either..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

my friend, who has 2 from the same litter as this guy.. and they are the following weights and lengths
835 grams @ 38.5"
633 grams @ 35.25"
we talked a bit.. i just might have the runt of the litter..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

I realize the feeding records are incomplete, but it looks like it's being fed 2 prey items, then it refuses. Then it's fed 2, and it refuses.

Try feeding one. What has ALWAYS worked for me for reluctant feeders is to let them get hungry. Like another poster said (whose advice you blew off - after seeking advice - which is weird to me), give it 3-4 weeks, allow it to feel very secure (with multiple tight hides). Don't weigh it, don't handle it, just leave it alone except to clean the cage. Keep the water fresh, ensure you have appropriate temperatures (between 75-80 at night and between 81-92 during the day) and appropriate humidity (55-75%) and then offer a meal. Also, I don't know what you're keeping it in, but if it's an "aquarium style" enclosure, I'd tape newspaper to each side of the glass to minimize what the boa can see going on around it. Aquarium style cages are not the best choice for boas mostly due to their inability to retain humidity, but also because some boas become insecure in these enclosures.

Don't worry about it losing weight - especially in 3-4 weeks. I've made my boas go 3 months without food and they did great. I wouldn't worry about parasites (ie, fecal exam) since it's CBB. It honestly sounds like this individual boas needs have not been met. One boa isn't the same as the next so it would benefit you both to adjust what's being forced on this boa so that IT is comfortable, not the keeper.

Also, what's your impression of how often a boa in the wild, eats?

I don't want you to get the wrong impression and feel like I'm berating you or anything, I just can't believe you dismissed the best advice you received - so I'm restating it a little more emphatically in case that's what you need.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

so.. you are basically saying to blow the snake off for 3-4 weeks, then offer food..

thank you for your reply and opinion (per your closing statement of your post)
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

To "blow the snake off" as you suggest would imply that you don't care.

What I recommend is to leave the snake alone, because you DO care.

As you keenly observed, this is my opinion based on over a decade of working with boa constrictors (up to 40 at any given time) including CB babies, CBB babies, WC babies, juveniles (CB, CBB, and WC) as well as adults (CB, CBB, and WC). This is my opinion, based on my experience.

What have you got to lose? The boa has already been stressed to the max with the current regimen, and it's CLEARLY not working. Why would you keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result? Why not try something different?

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

JB..
this RTB came into my care at 8pm on saturday the 17th..
on sunday the 18th i went looking for advise..

i am trying to give it the best chance that i can give it..

currently, i do not have any rat pups.. my order comes in 2 weeks from rodentpro.. so, for now.. Shiloh will not be disturbed, except for water and cage cleaning..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

I think the issue everyone has is with your initial reply to Darin, you thanked him for his contribution, but then told him you were going to ignore his advice.

"thank you for your reply..

i am just going to continue with weighing him each week and offering him a meal.. as long as he is not loosing weight.."

Glad to hear your boa is going to get a break from feeding - I prefer The Mouse Factory though

Good luck with everything.
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

JB..
i was trying to be polite.. as soo often on here.. no one even says thank you for much of anything..

i started with rodentpro, as that is who a group of use order from.. we do a combined order to save on shipping..

will have to look into the mouse factory..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
1 redtail boa
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

Why not trying to take some of the advice you're being offerred.. after all... you asked for it.... Johnathan Brady's advice seems to be the best for your situation based on the thread content..... He knows what he's talking about and is a breeder I have the utmost respect for.....

You have to remember... these animals are designed to exist on very inconsistent feedings... I've never gotten stressed about a boa refusing food unless it is losing a great deal of weight.... which usually takes a few months....
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

it was more the way the info was given..

i have not had good experience with the forums on kingsnake in the years past.. and on some of the forums, still the same..

there is no reason to be so short with people..
or nasty..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

Sorry if my advice came across as any thing other than friendly. Just stay REAL BUSY! 2 tattoo studios, a 2 year old daughter and a 80 snake collection will do that.
Not the worlds best typer either, but saw your post and felt I could give good advice... Cause once upon a time was right where you are. Got a snake that didn't eat for me but twice the first year I had her.... Tried every trick and tip of advice I was given... But the only thing that worked was time! Offered once a month then one day bam! And she eats once a week without fail now... Just relax...don't stress...wait it out
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06
0.2 h albino
07
0.1 dh snow
0.2 leticia
1.1 triple het
0.1 albino h snow
08
2.1 hypo hog
0.1 sunset
1.0 ghost
0.1 arabesque dh stripe alb
1.1 h type 2 anery
0.1 pastel motley
0.1 leticia
1.0 hypo ph bloody sharp
0.2 ph bloody sharp
1.0 h blood
0.1 sunglow poss super
1.2 anery h snow
0.2 albino h snow
1.1 50% guyana h albino
0.1 triple het
0.1 ghost h albino
1.0 jungle h anery ph albino
0.1 pastel het albino
09
1.1 dh blizzard
0.1 h albino
0.1 jungle h albino
1.0 motley h albino ph snow
1.0 albino h snow
1.0 anery h snow
1.1 hypo dh stripe albino
and 25 balls

i can completely understand time management..
use to run a parrot shop for a guy and do all his hand feeding for him (sometimes 24/7 every 2 hours feeding).. hand to keep the flock socialized as well. plus my own personal parrots..

i do appriecate the help.. you know what you were thinking, it just did not translate thru into the post and came off short..

anyway.. Shiloh is chillin' out (not temp wise) right now.. i will see how he does in 2 weeks if he seems ready to try a rat pup or fuzzy mouse...

thank you for taking the time to explain..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
1 redtail boa
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

As has already been stated. If the boa is not eating you need to go back to the basics.

VERIFY temps and humidity. More often than not feeding issues are related to improper husbandry.

Let it get hungry. In the wild boas can and IMO periodically go for long periods of time (months) between meals. They are designed for this life style. They do not quickly waste away without food. I had a baby snake go for 4 months without food from birth and was not visibly wasting away. Just never grew. then it decided to eat and was fine.

I agree with the other posters, the snake is being stressed out from forcing it to eat and/or too large of meals. I believe it's better to have more frequent smaller meals. Larger meals result in larger poops = many nutrients being passed through without being absorbed.

Remember, you posted asking for advice. You're getting the same answer over and over again, maybe, just maybe there is merit in the idea?

We're not saying to ignore it for weeks, just stop forcing it to eat or even offering it food. After that time offer it a SMALL meal. One that would barely leave any lump you can notice. If it doesn't eat, let it go another week or two and try again.

Forcing or assist feeding is not to be done unless necessary. I've done it to kick start babies before and has worked, a few assists typically get them going.

Of course clean water and clean cage.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

yes..
i check the water daily to make sure it is clean..
clean cage..
temp range is right on..
humidty is right on too..

the temps and humidty levels are the same for my tortoises.. and they all share a room..
thank you
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
1 redtail boa
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

I TOTALLY agree with the advice given! Beginners have the tendency to treat boas like puppies and kittens and they are just not -lol. They do not require the same type of hands on care that puppies need. Allow it to do its thing in its cage for a few weeks and go from there. It'll be just fine!!!

not really a beginner here.. but learning how do deal with a snake that will not eat.. been in reptiles now for 10 yrs.. this is the 1st time for me with a young snake that just does not eat..

we all learn something new everyday..
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Cilene
2 kenyan sand boas
1 redtail boa
2 redfoot tortoises
3 box turtles (florida, eastern, ornate)
2 sulcata tortoises

Oh, I see... the animal is probably just stressed. My import guyana stresses easily so I put her enclosure in the closet and her lighting is on a timer, 12hrs. on 12 off. She is very nocturnal and eats more often with this stable set up. Hope this helps and best of luck!