Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No pythons were found during Spring 2010 python hunt.
FWC News Release

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USARK

So pre-cold-snap, there were "tens of thousands" of snakes in the everglades. The cold snap kills "50%" of them, and now they can't find any. Seems to me if either one of those numbers were anything other than pulled straight out of their ignorant rear-ends, there would still be pythons to be caught.

All you have to do is look at the financial crisis this country is in to realize that anyone involved in our govt. is not very good with numbers.

>>All you have to do is look at the financial crisis this country is in to realize that anyone involved in our govt. is not very good with numbers.

I guess it's getting harder to fudge things now that mother nature exposed the truth. I'm still trying to figure out how someone who knows at least 9 of 10 monitored pythons died (I say "at least" because the circumstances of the surviving python were not divulged) and that NO pythons were found during the latest hunt could at the same time say only 50% (or only "up to 50%", depending on the article) of the pythons died.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/16/1583034/fla-python-hunting-season-comes.html#ixzz0lHwzvtiM

http://myfwc.com/NEWSROOM/Resources/News_Resources_PythonPermitUpdates.htm

Why are these gov't officials not held to any standards? At the very least they should be challenged to provide evidence to back up their claims, that's just basic common sense. Can you imagine if the FDA (or other areas of scientific study) enforced such poor standards?? We'd be back in the stone age.

Please don't confuse media reports with what was actually said. Scott Hardin of FWC has been more than fair with industry. He is the one that said at least 50% of the pythons likely died as a result of the cold snap. That was a quote from right after it happened. He also said there was no way to tell exactly how many pythons died. Scott is one of the good guys.
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USARK

Sorry, I cut and pasted the wrong FWC link. Here is the correct one:

http://myfwc.com/NEWSROOM/10/south/News_10_S_ROC_SpecialSeason2.htm

This is not a general "media report", it's the FWC website.

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"Based on observations and reports from python removal permit holders, biologists and hunters, we believe 50 percent of the wild Burmese python population died as a result of the record cold weather," said Scott Hardin, the FWC's Exotic Species Section leader. "These seasonal kills are beneficial in helping to control nonnative reptile populations."
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I don't see anything about the 50 percent figure being a minimum, nor anything about not knowing how many snakes were killed. So there's a big difference between what he said on the FWC website and what you are saying he said at some point. I really don't care if he is a "good guy", a "bad guy" or a "neutral guy", I don't like spin and incomplete information.

FWC are our friends NOT our enemies and agree with us on this stupidity. Many are personal friends of mine as well. THEY ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES BUT OUR BEST ALLIES. They understand the issues and are working to get the truth out there. FWC scientist do NOT fudge the facts for political purposes and are only interested in reporting the facts. One of the biologist Kevin Enge is a hard core Herper and is a life long friend. He is likely the most laid back honest people I know. Paul Moler [now retired] was likely one of the greatest Fl biologist that I've ever known. Single-handedly pretty much he created Crocodile Lakes National Wildlife Refuge, discovered and described a brand new species of Rana in N. Florida, and a long time friend as well. FWC have always been our allies and are against bans but agree with regulations...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom is right on FWC and Moler was the a strate shooter and would tell it like it was wheather you liked it or not. He was engaged with the Fl.herp societies,and a insperation to anyone that thought they were at a disadvantage. Enge was a herper a head of his time. Breeding morphs before they were called morphs. Collector, Wholesale, retail, import/export co-owner of the faimed hogtown Herps with Dug Foster. He new Fl.herps in the wild like the back of his hand. Did a study in the 90's that showed snake collecting in the Everglades was NOT going to destroy the king and cornsnake population. You could not ask for a better guy on OUR side. Hay Tom, they say Paul still comes in even though he retired, so they gave him an office. Both very dedicated and unbias men. The USGS should have used them for the Python study. Vic

I know. I still talk with Paul even after all these years..Every now and again we run into each other as well. I'm always talking with Kevin involving any exotic herps and range extentions. He and I not long ago had a range extention of Basilisk Lizards published in Herp Review...Both bright and great guys...Vic you got to be the KING of Mnt Tortoises. How many a year are you producing now?
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Oh Id say...a bunch! I would love to have you visit me. Some enclosures are so large and natural it takes some time to find them. 2 to 3 per enclosure, from 3-9,000 sf each. They should start nest building any day now. More like a Alligator than any tortoise, maybe one of the few things you have not seen. But then I should'nt under estamate you. You brought in my first female, An adult ,though I got them 2nd hand from a jobber. It was Dec 1987. She still lay's eggs every year. Possably just now in the prime of her breeding life, based on clutch size and hatchling weight.She's known as BIG MAMA. See what you do to people. Vic......here she is

Actually I bred them twice and then gave mine to Ab Abercrombie at Wofford College and he bred them for years later. The nest looks like an Alligator nest..I thought they were very interesting. I've actually seen at least one female I had seek out and kill mice and chicks by crushing them with her plastron by slamming them under her. Then she would eat them. Their very unlike any other tortoises I've had. Great animals and you've done a great job with them...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

HOLY MOLLY your hard to out do...OK I've got second generation HA! Thanks for the kind words. Anytime your in the Fl. Artic zone,open invite. Vic

>>....Moler was the a strate shooter and would tell it like it was wheather you liked it or not."

I like straight shooters, and that's what I was trying to do - shoot straight. Sorry if it's not politically correct to say it, but bs is bs. This Hardin guy knows at least 9 of the 10 monitored pythons were fatally affected, and according to Mr. Wyatt he testified that AT LEAST 50% of the pythons died and there was no way to know how many. With that in mind, the FWC press release was a case of someone NOT being a straight shooter.

There was no intent, at least on my part, to condemn everyone associated with the FWC.

" Can you imagine if the FDA (or other areas of scientific study) enforced such poor standards?? We'd be back in the stone age."

You might want to get yourself a better understanding of how the FDA works before making such statements.

Is it your job to make a negative comment to everyone on these boards? I guess you simply don't care if people have no respect for you or your responses.

Go ahead, take your shot at me....I don't need the last word.

We should be shouting these results from the rooftops, and every senator and congressperson whould get a copy. For this result TOTALLY disproves the purported "potential python range map" from USGS!!!

This winter's south Florida "cold snap", which evidently killed *most* of the pythons, was characterized by temperatures which (though exceptional for the area)are commonplace in Central and north Florida. As I and many other keepers have stated repeatedly, burms will never colonize any area further north than Okeechobee!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Well we sure can't find any here now. Maybe some lived but you couldn't prove it by me...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Personally I think that a very small percentage survived or folks would still find some. I'm guessing that more than 80% were killed. If you use Iguana's as an example even they are now HARD to find. The Iguana's probably took a 80-90% hit at least. Only in the Fl. Keys did they do well but it never froze there as it did on the mainland....thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I wonder how many Nile monitors made it?

For those that may have survived, the population density should be such that successful breeding will be a very low probability.
There may be small isolated pockets of survivors due to extraordinary environmental circumstances, such as in the vicinity of power plants. If any such surviving locals/populations should be found, it is important to eliminate those initial post freeze colonies before they have a chance to spread once again.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Tom,
I talked with a friend of mine who is a landscaper in Key largo and south and he said he was shocked how many iguanas died down there.
I was even more shocked when I saw an adult male and female out sunning along side of a canal way west in west palm beach. They must have had a warm hole somewhere.
Rob

Any wild ones been found? Other than some one planting one?