Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It's been brought to my attention that a new book on Milksnakes is due to be released next month by Advanced Vivarium Systems. In my searching, all I've been able to turn up is that it's written by a guy named Bryan Engler. Anyone have any more info?

-Cole

Amazon has a little information on it... co-authored by Jerry Walls, 120 pages, coming out May 25. Not the replacement for Williams' Systematics we're looking forward to, but it should be a decent guide for people interested in keeping milksnakes as pets. Hopefully it will be better than the older edition of the Barron's guide by Markel and Bartlett... I remember picking that up in a pet store several years ago, flipping to the description of gaigeae, and getting a chuckle from the description: "Some specimens are of a rather aggressive demeanor. When bothered unduly they may swing into a striking S form and bite repeatedly." The accompanying picture wasn't a particularly nice specimen, either; can't imagine that it did much for their popularity. The description in the newer edition is less detailed, but at least they left out the nonsense about them being aggressive!

Nate
Milksnakes (Advanced Vivarium Systems) on Amazon.com

Thanks for the info on the new book. I look forward to adding one to my collection once released.

I think they may have had their gaigeae description mixed up with this other black demon.

Coluber constrictor constrictor

This guy just about came off the groud repeatedly trying to grab a hold of me while I was trying to get a few shots with my phone, lol.
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Joe

LOL!!,...yeah, could be Joe. But could also very well have been the Eastern Black king (L.g.nigra) though, as that has a pretty fair reputation for being somewhat less than a sweetheart than some of the others..LOL!

I think they got their wires crossed with that nippy gaigeae statement too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

It could be that they're talking about a different snake, but maybe not a different genus or species. The accompanying picture shows a dark-colored milksnake with a head pattern that much more closely resembles a micropholis or andesiana than any gaigeae I've ever produced. Mine usually look like polyzona or stuarti. It seems more likely the aggressive specimens they refer to are gaigeae x micropholis intergrades from Panama, or maybe even very dark andesiana. Another possible explanation is that they were simply stressed from being kept too warm; I don't recall seeing anything in that edition of the book about having to keep them at cooler temperatures than other tropical milksnakes.

Nate

Yeah Nate,.......I haven't seen the exact photo to say either way as to what it really was, but as you mentioned, if a couple of those subspecies are kept too warm, I can certainly see them getting a little cranky..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

On the topic of good milk snake literature, what do you all more knowledgeable than me (i.e. all of you LOL!) consider to be the classic and/or authoritative works? Besides Williams, of course. The time commitment of vet school in the fall has forced me to part with most of my pythons for the next few years, but I hope to remain active in herpetoculture by keeping and moderately expanding my milk collection. Thanks for everyone's input!
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

Williams-more of a systematic reference
Markel-a pretty picture book
Applegate-this simple milksnake manual I have always referred to as "the bible".
I'm pretty convinced that if 10 people on the forum dont know the author of a new book....its probably junk. That is not being egotistical at all, but this is one of the more knowledgable and sharing forums around. Despite our fights and differences we can aknowledge there are people that garner every nugget outside and bring it here. Keep us posted on this new book. Thanks.

Yeah, I haven't actually read it, but I was going to recommend Applegate's book based on name recognition alone.

Speaking of "fights and differences"... I noticed that some of the mean-spirited replies to your honduran morph "joke" from a week or two ago have been deleted. I almost commented on that in the thread, but was more interested in making sure that the original poster got the information he was looking for. The SPAM reference threw me off at first, and my initial thought was that you were making an oblique Monty Python reference, but now I'm pretty sure that you meant that hondo breeding "industry" is like a meat grinder into which several Central American subspecies with recessive traits get fed. Is that what you were getting at?

Nate

Thanks a lot, Jeff. I picked up Williams at an auction a few years ago and have been looking forward to this summer when I plan to give it more than just a curious glance over. I've ordered the Markel and Applegate books now too on your endorsement.
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

Yeah, all those are pretty much "must have" classics for the Lampropeltis keeper. I have had all those for many years now.

Brian Hubbs' "Common Kingsnakes" - "A Natural History of Lampropeltis getula" book is absolutely second to NONE in regards to the getula complex. It is the best, most detailed, and in-depth kingsnake book on the entire planet without exception!

And I am not just saying this because I have a couple Outer Banks kings featured in it either. It is truly the best written kingsnake book in existence...period!

Brian spent four long years compiling this awesome publication, and it certainly shows too.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

If we could just get him to finish up his next book, we'd be in really good shape!

-Cole

If you can find it without paying small fortune try to get a copy of 'A REVISION OF THE KINGSNAKES; GENUS LAMPROPETIS' by Frank N. Blanchard. It is interesting to see the old info. theOLDherper

Correction, I just found out that the Blanchard book had been reprinted - worth the price. theOLDherper

Thanks, a lot. I'm an "old literature" buff so I'll be sure to pick this one up too!
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com