Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been keeping reptiles for over 25 years now and have never had a problem getting even the sickest of animals to eat.I have owned everything from corn snakes, pythons and boas of all types, some of the deadliest snakes on earth and monitor lizards from water monitors, croc monitors, black throats, niles, ackies peach throats, savanas, blue tails, etc. However, this is my dilema. I bought my son a baby Black Rough Neck Monitor about 1 month ago. I have checked, double checked and triple checked its environmental conditions from temps, humidity, substrate, hiding spots, climbing spots, foliage, and privacy. I have offered everything from crickets, butterworms, silk worms, pinkies, fuzzies, crawfish meat, scallops etc. This lizard will not eat anything. I checked for dehydration, parasites and genetic deformaties such as esophagus issues, stomach issues. Now I have been assist feeding it for about a week and it digests everything just fine and never regurges anything. Its been assist fed butter and silk worms (just for the nutrition and to put on weight. Anyone have any ideas as to what is going on? It is an extremely active animal and is not shy or timid at all. Its always basking or soaking and rarely uses its hide areas. Any suggestions are most welcome. This animal is roughly 1.5 to 2 months old.

Pictures of your set up would help and temp readings...surface temps not ambients. Also you mentioned that you have kept many species of monitors. Do you still have them and if not why?

Also STOP ASSIST FEEDING!!! And if you are doing any other handling...STOP!

Thanks for your advise about handling and assist feeding, but this is not my first time keeping reptiles. I stopped keeping the larger species of snakes and monitors as well as venomous because of where I live. It is no longer legal to keep certain animals here in NY without permits, which they do not just give out anymore. I know my temperatures and enclosure set up is appropriate for this species of monitor. I do not purchase something unless I am aware of whats involved in keeping it. I do not have pictures available at this time. I gave the animal 2 weeks to acclimate to its surroundings and new enclosure before attempting to handle. Food was offered and interest was shown but non consumed. As I said, it is very active and outwardly shows no physical signs of illness. Its just a bit hard to watch an animal emaciate in front of your face and do nothing. As I also said, fecal examinations show no parasites that can be tested for and the animal is very active. Why is it important to question why I no longer keep what I had in my collection before? I have kept species of reptiles that are far more delicate then this with no problems what so ever. My question was what experiences others have had with non-feeding rough necks besides environmental or illness related. I kept my question to rough necks as it is the only species that I have ever owned to show this behavior in regards to feeding.

I asked because it is quite a difference to keep a varanid for a few months and to keep one for years. If they died in your care then that is even more telling.

You reacted just as I thought you would and just as sulpherboy predicted.

You say that your animals setup is perfect yet your animal is not doing well. Sir your new monitor is proving you wrong.

You want advice. Stop handling while your animal is not doing well. Monitors in decent conditions will not emaciate in front of your eyes. I'm guessing his rapidly appearing emacitation is due to dehydration but without pics of your setup I'm just guessing.

Please sir suspend you pride. Answer a few questions, provide some pics and at least let people attempt to help you.

Your 25 years aren't helping you now, so for now let's just forget that you have that in your back pocket.

Because of your 25 years of experience with reptiles, are you going to get upset/uptight if someone suggest you to change or do something? Thats usually the case when someone defines their life of reptile experiences. Please take the corrective critism as help for both you and the monitor, not as an attack.

Again, please decribe and apply pictures of the setup. For the most part, monitors don't eat because of stress as well as improper conditions. Hopefully the roughneck guys will chime in and really help you out. Goood luck.

I'm the owner of a 1.1 pair of Roughnecks,and I'm going to have to agree with nat and Kai.Baby Roughnecks are notoriously shy and don't take well to handling.What you are experiencing is very common in Roughnecks.They are all wild caught and most of them do not eat and die with in the first couple months.The other problem is they do not show any signs of stress until it's to late,so you claims of him being active are right on par.

Now I'm going to give you some advice.Your 25 years of experience,throw it out the window(a lot has changed in the last 25 years)You can not put a time frame on how long it take to acclimate them.Some take a few weeks,some a few months,some it takes over a year,and some never do.I don't know what you are keeping him in,but Rudie's do better when they can get above your head,so you will need a tall cage or place it on a tall stand or something.If your keeping him in a fish tank cover the top,Rudie's like it humid and if you have a screen top your letting everything out.Your gong to need a basking site of a least 120 now that is a surface temp and you can only read that with a temp gun.As fare as ambient temp I keep mine around 85,but I prefer to give them the choice of temperatures they want 90-95 on the hot side 75 on the cool side.You will also need a deep borrowable substrate,they do like to dig.

When setting up his cage set it up so you cant see him,as I stated they can be very shy so give him lots of places to hide.Try to give him hiding spots on the hot,warm,and cool side like I said the settle down better when they cant be seen,which being us back to you problem.If you are standing there when you put the food in he might not eat because he feels to exposed.Then because hes not eating you force feed him,which causes more stress,which mean hes not going to eat which means you going to force feed again.See the cycle here.My advice to you is to make sure you have him set up properly leave him alone and let him settle in to his new home,leave the food in the cage and hopefully he will take it.

Greg
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1.1 Varanus Rudicollis(Black roughneck monitor)
1.2 Tokay gecko
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle

Greg,

Thank you for your reply. Just to set the record straight to anyone who may think its a matter or pride, its not. My statement of over 25 years experience was not to toot my own horn. It was mearly stated just so it was known I am not new to this hobby. I read these forums a lot and sometimes dare not post because of all the "experts" that frequent here. But anyway, my enclosure for him is almost exactly as you stated it should be. This lizard just like any new arrival is put as high up as it can be in a 8 foot high room. I do not seek it out as it is always exploring its cage and making itself visible. He was purchased as a hatchling and the fact he is a wild caught or farm bred animal is well known. The substrate is cyprus mulch (about 6 to 8 inches deep), 4 hide spots are provided (2 on the ground and 2 elevated (cork tubes), a large water dish is provided and the lizard does soak occasionally, synthetic vines have been used for climbing and set in various directions from bottom to top and fake plants are used as cover and foliage, ambient temps are between 85 and 90 degrees with a basking area of 130 degrees (all temps confirmed by a Fluke infrared heat gun), humidity is between 80 and 90 percent. The cage dimensions are 30" long, 30" wide, 36" high. Ground temps are around 85 - 87 degrees and heat tape is used to provide the heat. Night time temps do not fall below 75 degrees. This enclosure was built and set up 1 week before the monitor was purchased so as that any changes to get environmental conditions correct could be made before the lizard was put in it. I am aware that dehydration is a huge factor in all animals, especially young lizards. It does not appear to be the case here but anything is possible. I do agree that the acclimation period does vary with each individual animal and some require more time then others. With the activity level of this animal being so high and its metabolism being equally as high I just find it odd that it will not eat. Emaciation will happen when activity levels and metabolism are high with little or no food consumption. I will leave the animal alone and see what happens. I do know that some animals are 100% healthy and just lack the will to survive. Thats just a fact of life. Its just hard to watch it happen. Assist feeding has always been a last resort due to stress caused, another fact I am well aware of. Again, thank you for your reply. I will try and take pics when I get a chance.

If you provided a larger temp gradient, i.e. a cool spot lower than the stated 85 your monitor would be able to regulate his own metabolism. Being at least that warm all the time may very well be why he is losing weight rapidly. A cool spot in the 70's would allow him to slow that down at will until he is comfortable enough to eat. Although its also possible that he has organ damage to the point of No return and there may be nothing you can do.

I will drop the temps a bit to the lower 70's if that is the suggestion you are making. All the research I have done and reading from various sources say for it not to drop below 72. Im not sure if 3 degrees from 75 to 72 will make the difference much but I will attempt that. To answer your other question as to losses of animals, the answer is very minimal. I have had the unfortunate case of getting an animal that seems outright healthy and lose it to unknown reasons, but never due to poor husbandry practices or neglect. If not for the changing laws in NY I would probably still have a great deal of the reptiles I once had in my possession. Some of which would have been quite into their later years of their life expectancy. I respect your advice and your willingness to answer my questions as to my concerns. I do get defensive when husbandry practices are questioned because you do not know me or my knowledge of these animals as I do not know yours. I am always willing to listen and apply advice from knowledgable people as long as its presented nicely. Its a hobby we all seem to enjoy and the idea here is to help each other out when and if we need it. Thank you for your advice.

Just to clarify. I am not advocating dropping the temps of the entire cage just the cool end. You still want the animal to be able to warm up when it decides it wants to eat. This may not help at all but it is a step that I would attempt in conjuction with others, such as a strict hands off approach and very minimal "watching". I wish you luck and hope He will turn around for you.

Thanks again for the reply. I knew what you meant about the temperature drop. I have lowered the temps on that end and will see what happens. I too hope he turns around. He is a very beautiful monitor with a very curious disposition. Only time will tell.

Are you able to provide any pics for us?

I know you said you've tried a lot of food items, but try a few more. Mice or shrimp dipped in egg yolk, cut up mice dipped in egg yolk. Ground turkey with bug and mice parts in it.
Small whole Fish..smelt, mullet. See how those work, leave it in a bowl in front of the little guy's favorite hiding place.

Hope all goes well. If you could, apply visual barriers...covering up the cage or putting something over parts of the glass.

I had some trouble getting my Rudi to eat when I first got him.What I did was cut open a pinkie,and he took that quickly,and happily.Once he was eating pinkies on a regular basis,I would take some shrimp and dip it into the cut open pinkie,and he started taking them eagerly.Also in the famous words of the late great Mark Bayless black Roughnecks will be your best friend for a roach.So you might want to try them.

Greg
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1.1 Varanus Rudicollis(Black roughneck monitor)
1.2 Tokay gecko
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle

Hello,
Black rough necks readily eat frogs. I have converted reluctant feeders by feeding squirrel tree frogs for a few days first, then scenting live pikies or fuzzies with a frozen thawed frog to get them to accept them. Best to You- Mike S

>>Hello,
>>Black rough necks readily eat frogs. I have converted reluctant feeders by feeding squirrel tree frogs for a few days first, then scenting live pikies or fuzzies with a frozen thawed frog to get them to accept them. Best to You- Mike S

Thanks Mike I will have to keep that in mind.

Greg
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1.1 Varanus Rudicollis(Black roughneck monitor)
2.0.3 Varanus jobiesis
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle