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What are the expected chances of getting Jellies with a pairing of an Amel or Amel snow with a PB het?

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

What are the expected chances of getting Jellies with a pairing of an Amel or Amel snow with a PB het?

Zero.

unless you are taling about the T negative Amel.
I assume you meant the Lavender albino since you mentioned the snow. The lavender albino does not share a locus like the T neg does with the Peanut Butter. The T neg and PB create the jelly in the first generation.

Anytime you breed a T negative to a Peanut butter, you will get all Jellies. Breed a jelly to a T neg, you get jellies and T negs. breed a PB to a jelly, you get PB's and Jellies. Breed a Jelly to jelly, you get PB, T negs and Jellies.

maybe this description will make it easier for some (probably not)..It is hard to ones head around because so many people are used to thinking of hets and straight recessive traits. Think of the T neg Amel and the PB and the jelly as all one and the same animal/trait. Not seprate hets or seperate traits.

For instance I created triple hets, some with jelly x Ghost, some with T neg x ghost and some with PB x Ghost. It does not matter which of the three i put together because the Ghost all line up and if one is a het T neg or another a het Pb etc. The traits all line up.

hmmm, not sure if this helped anybody. I much better at explaining this over the phone or in person.

2010 T neg hatchling:

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www.Bluerosy.com

What are the expected chances of getting Jellies with a pairing of an Amel or Amel snow with a PB het?

Woops, to answer your question (if it is a t neg "true Amelanistic" we are talking about and not the lavender Amel).

It is like breeding any het to a visual of the same trait. Same result as if you bred a Axanthic het to a visual axanthic. A hypo to a het hypo ...etc.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I am refering to an Amel and Snow Amel bred to a Het for peanut butter. So I should get some Jellies statistically speaking?

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Since there are only two true snows in the world and Amels are up in price and this still uncommon. i think you are talking about a lavender albino and not a true albino.

Lavender or T positive albono Florida kings have been around since the early 90's and are very common today.

The peanut butter is only allelic with the TRUE albino. Not the lavender albino. A true albino has red eyes. What you have is known as or referred to as a lavender albino or (aka) a T positive amelanitic 9which I think is mislabled but that is another story). Point is, the Peanut butter trait shares no allelic trait with the lavender T positive albino. Only the (red eyed) true amel. I posted a pic of one in the previous post.

If you breed A peanut Butter to a Laevdnr you will get normals. Raise the normals up and breed brother to sister and you have a 1/18th chance of producing a double homozygot.

A Jelly is not a double homo. The amel and Peanut Butter share a locus on a single allele and you will get Jellies in the first generation.
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www.Bluerosy.com

This is an Amela red eyed T- neg from Lemke line and a snow T-neg. From the same line. I just wasn't sure about the het Peanut Butter making jellies with it?

Her is the female T-Neg Snow. I got them from a very reputable breeder. I also have the T-positive snow.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

T-neg snow

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

~ZF

It's possible I guess? Only time will tell I guess?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

What about the Amel I posted, what is that?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Np

Here are two side by side?

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

They both look like lavenders. One is just darker than the other.

Yeah this whole thing is a bit confusing, lol. The breeder said they are definately not Lavs so I will test them with some breedings and see what the heck they are. But I have to wait till there big enough.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah, that is exactly what I thought too, just that one individual has more tyrosinase within the melanocyte than the other.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So a good test would be to breed these two together and they should either be all Lavs or all double hets.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Exactly!, that is if there are no other like recessive genes floating around with the two that can be displayed in homozygous form of course.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This is from Jelly to jelly breeding i did myself,came out T Poss according to me

Maybe that's what some are calling Pewter? Or they both were het for Lavender also.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

All i can say is poor Recort keeping ..PERIOD

yeah, I'd say so. Looks like both parents were het for lavender

Definitely not a "Pewter" though, as they have solid dark eyes anyway.

Hey Chris, you goin to the Repticon in Orlando on May 22-23rd?. I will be a vendor there again if you decide to go there.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Do you have a better pic of that animal?
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Yeah, weird!,.......from what I understood, it would be T-negative, PB's, and Jellies from that. Too much stuff floating around in brooks morphs for me to get a definite handle on all of it..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That snake is NOT lavender it's a "Jelly" and i'd bet It's a Male:

Looks exactly like my 1st generation "Jelly" male

The problem i as see it, people don't take the time to know the morph... with the "Jelly" i get different looking animals based on which two adults i paired together. I get different looking "Jellies" using the same pair whether it's a 2x clutch or a different year.

at 1st i thought they's all just look alike but that's changing. Males and females look different, but with genetic cross over that's changing as well. When i got into PB males were light females were dark... I've hatched out a few DARK males and lighter than "normal" females. Additionally as they mature "Jellies" change dramatically!

My point here is if you're gonna work with a morph, get to know it better... you could have sold that snake as a lavender het "jelly" then the buyer would be pissed years later to find out all it's only a "Jelly"

"Jellies"

~ZF

Zenny is right It is a definetly a Jelly.

Chroistopher- i hope you didn't sell those as lavenders to anyone. That is how misiformation gets started. probably much like Jorge who think the two lavender are different. They are the same thing Jorge..

Doug- the record keeping is perfect on these. I would just ask more $$ if there were more traits involved , lol.

Some of the triple hets in the past were quite expensive and this year there will be new triple and quad hets. I just got eggs today from a Whitesided hypo breeding to a Peabino. That make the babies 100% het for Peanut Butter, Whitesided, Hypo, Lavender and pos het anery. These things don't come cheap and anyone spending the cash will sure as hell know what is in them.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Both of the ones you posted are from the lavender line. Lloyd Lemke never had a T neg "true albino".

The T begtive trait is still pretty rare even though i have been working with the founding stock for about 9 years. Since acquiring, I only released a few. It was because when i discovred that breeding a T neg to a peanut butter created a Jelly in the first generation, i used all my T neg females to breed to Peanut butters to create more Jellies. So the last 4 years i really did not have many t negs avaliable. I did this because i felt the jelly is a superior animal but as it turns out folks still don't understand/grasp the significant genetics and have been asking for the amel t negatives and peanut butters. So this will be the year i will make more t negative amels avaliable.
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www.Bluerosy.com

This is from your web site>

"Some of the females trun out with a lot of red. This must have come from the colaborative work between Jeff Corwin and Lloyd lemke who started outcrossing the original T negative albino into high red Flame normals that Lloyd Lemke had."

I'm just trying to find out the truth? If what I have is lavanders than that ok too! I didn't pay a fortune for them but I want to know.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

This is from your web site>

I'm just trying to find out the truth? If what I have is lavanders than that ok too! I didn't pay a fortune for them but I want to know.

It is late here. I just made a long post but somehow it got deleted when i hit reply. So this is going to be short.

Right before Lloyd lemke passed away he lerned of a guy who popped out the first t negative albino brooks king.

Lloyd contacted him and convinced him to use 2 of his high red (normal) females to create hets.

Lloyd passed away before the snakes bred.

The guy with the snakes went to prison.

The snakes were left in his apt.

The snakes were rescued by the zookeeper Corwin.

I ended up with them.

the end.

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www.Bluerosy.com

"Raise the normals up and breed brother to sister and you have a 1/18th chance of producing a double homozygot"

That's a 1/16th chance of producing a double homozygote

This thread is crackin me up with all the miscommunication and head-scratching goin on..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This thread is crackin me up with all the miscommunication and head-scratching goin on..LOL!

I am happy you are amused
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www.Bluerosy.com

I Know !!! ...Since both are Albino call the Amel an Amel