Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all. I've got a BRB rescue that we've been nursing back to health since we picked her up. I posted a detailed plea for input on the herp health page, but I wasn't sure how many of you check that thread as regularly as you stop in here. Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,

Tonya

Tonya,
....Respiratory problems in snakes and especially these snakes are usually caused by the keeper. Rescues most often have been subjected to dehydration and can have respiratory problems for awhile afterwords. Brazilian Rainbow Boas are often kept too hot or too dry and that will cause them to dehydrate resulting in damage to the respiratory system along with the entire body. Think in terms of mucosal linings drying out and then cracking resulting in an entry way for infection. They also can pick up respiratory problems if kept on dirty substrate. Also can be caused by noxious chemicals in substrates. The oils from MANY woods and plants are noxious to snakes. These snakes pass lots of wet urates and if left in the substrate it will grow stuff. The urates are also highly acidic which causes skin and respiratory problems. Many people keep moss or other material in the cage to hold humidity. These things work great but they get too acidic if not changed out or cleaned frequently. Many people who post on the herp health page mistakenly advise keeping these snakes too hot. They do not require the hot temperatures that work well with many other boids. Many snakes with respiratory problems will respond well to increased temperature but you have to be careful to not go too high with BRBs. Detailed plea for help in the herp health forum you say, but exactly zero details here. People who pay CLOSE attention to all the details do well with these snakes. People who are not detail oriented often have problems with them.
Couple of questions:
1. What substrate are you using?
2. What temperature?
3. What humidity?
4. Have you been to the vet? Touchy question as many vets do not realize these snakes are different than other boids but vets sometimes do cultures to identify pathogens and then prescribe the best antibiotic for them.
5. Is the snake eating? And what is it eating?
6. Keeping meals down?
7. What does the skin look and feel like?
Jeff

Jeff let me first thank you for your reply. My original post was under "Herp Health" thread. Thank you Kelly for your reply there as well. I'll repost & embellish my original here to address your questions =) ps.. Cassie is heading back to vet again tomorrow.

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I'll apologize in advance for the long story, but I'm trying to include as much detail as I can.

I have a rescued 3yr old female BRB that I've been nursing since I picked her up Feb 27th at a show in PA. She was extremely dehydrated and underweight on first meeting, retained eyecaps and shed on her head. Her scales were literally matte. We thought we lost her on the way home in the car... she was sleeping with her mouth agape, lethargic and making rasping noises occasionally on inhale. No mucos, discharge or cough. Just that persistent "snarfling" inhale... when she does it she looks almost like a toad croaking, the pouch of skin under her jaw puffing up as she breathes.

Her tank setup: temps and ambient humidity fluctuate between 75-80, waterbowl for soaking, damp hide and dry log hide on 3" of cypress mulch topped by spagnum.

The symptoms subsided a bit once she settled in, but still there; maybe 8-10 times an hour. Got her to a vet a few days later (delay due to blizzard) We found some redness deep in her throat, more like broken blood vessels. The decision was made to treat her for RI regardless. Shots every 3 days for 12 doses (blanking on the name of the medicine, I know it was a broad spectrum.)

Finally got a good shed and a fecal; she's still "snarfling" occasionally, but marked improvement. She's gained 100g in 8 weeks, almost to 500g now. Still tiny for a 3 yr old it seems. One adult F/T mouse weekly, no powerfeeding here. Fecal came back with hookworms, so now on a Panacur regimen for 8 weeks. Have a call into my vet again regarding the symptoms returning.

Has anyone had experience with these RI symptoms? I'm pretty sure the vet's going to want to get a culture of whatever's brewing in there at this point. This lil gal has been a trooper through it all, great disposition and even getting some spunk back! Hoping we can get to the bottom of this all. Any input is appreciated!

Thanks!

Tonya & Cassie

****Added a pic of her out exploring while I did my daily once-over of her cage. The central log is covering a plastic container filled with damp sphagnum. Cooler hide is in the background, "hottub" in the foreground. Working on getting her a larger glass soaking bowl for that spot... tis a work in progress. I hand feed both of my BRB's as an opportunity to get glimpses in the mouth/throat area weekly without being intrusive. Trying to collect fecals on my other 3 to bring tomorrow to r/o contaminated feed. Hard to believe she's gaining that much with parasites present! She hasn't hesitated on a meal offered yet, I think she was even considering my thumb as dessert last Friday =)

Tonya,
...That is the kind of detail I was hoping for. It looks like being very dehydrated likely resulted in drying injury to the respiratory system. You seem to be doing lots of things right with the snake. It is possible that the injury involves no or very low levels of bacteria and is technically not an infection and may not need antibiotic treatment. Antibiotics are tough on snakes. They need to be kept very well hydrated during antibiotic treatment. Snakes that are not feeling well often do not drink like they should and so may need fluids forced on them during treatment. A culture may show bacteria even though the bacteria are at such low levels that there are not enough of them to be causing a problem. Many of us here HATE seeing tanks used as housing for these snakes. The screen top allows the humidity to escape. Think in terms of the flu effect. Warm air at the heated part of the cage rises out of the cage taking humidity with it and cooler dry room air drops into the cage to replace it. Those of us living in humid parts of the country often think our indoor air is humid but it is often as low as 30% humidity even at times that the outdoor humidity is very high. These snakes require very high humidity. Adults do best with humidity above 65%. As high as 100% is fine as long as the cage does not grow mold too quickly with it that high. Tanks do work with solid tops. If you are using a screen top try covering it with plastic over 95% or more of the screen. I should warn that covering the screen to retain humidity will also retain heat so you will need much less external heating. Your cage looks nice with all the plantings in there but if it was me I would go very simple with paper substrate and a box with clean spaghnum moss to rule out the possibility that one or more of those plants may be outgassing something that is inhibiting the healing of the respiratory system. That would also make it easier to keep the cage spotlessly clean while the snake is recovering. My guess is that the snake may or may not make a full recovery depending upon the extent of injury and scarring in the upper airway. Hookworms might be the primary cause of the snake's problems. Internal parasites often lead to dehydration and associated problems. The hookworms might also be a result of the snake being weakened and sick and susceptable to internal parasite infestation. Panacur works well but hookworms are sometimes persistent and the snake may need several panacur treatments to fully rid them. I have had lots of rescue BRBs that were seriously dehydrated come around with just careful attention to caging and husbandry. BTW, dehydrated snakes always look terrible. Recovered BRBs often color up amazingly well and turn into great looking pets.
Good luck,
Jeff

Jeff, thank you again for your input. Being a comparatively new herper, I find myself bordering on OCD in trying to learn as much as I can from each new experience.

My tanks do have screen tops, but I use overlapping pieces of plexi on top. Gives great flexibility in controlling her micro-climate throughout NY's varying seasons. If it gets too dry I pull out the plastic bags. No need to get your "hatin" on! What you don't see in the pic is the Herpstat sensor, which is usually placed on the hot side at substrate level to control against overheating. (UTH in use) I did pull the live plants out. We'll get a culture later this afternoon, and I very may end up pulling all the substrate out too. I was playing around with my new camera today and was able to capture video of her symptoms. They are very mild today, other times they are exascerbated. She's going pink, so she looks dryer than she really is. First time ever playing with vid clips, my editing skills need improvement!

Side note to Dave: Orion is healthy, happy and growing like a weed! Always a pleasure! (pic inset)

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Desiderata Baby!

1.0 '08 BRB "Orion"
0.1 '07? BRB "Cassiopea"
0.1 '09 Cal King. "Pandora"
0.1 '09 Apricot Hondo "Speckles"
1.0 '08 Tang. Hondo "Bates"
0.0.1 '09 Eastern Garter winter refugee "Jumper"
2.1 '08 Domestic Ferrets "Hobbs, Meenu & Stash"
0.2 '95 & '99 Homo Sapiens, feline recessive

Not the greatest of news, but I'm pleased we've identified what's plaguing Miss Cassie. C&S of her throat came back today showing pseudomonas. Amikacin & Pipercillin regimen starting tonight. *whew*
-----
Desiderata Baby!

1.0 '08 BRB "Orion"
0.1 '07? BRB "Cassiopea"
0.1 '09 Cal King. "Pandora"
0.1 '09 Apricot Hondo "Speckles"
1.0 '08 Tang. Hondo "Bates"
0.0.1 '09 Eastern Garter winter refugee "Jumper"
2.1 '08 Domestic Ferrets "Hobbs, Meenu & Stash"
0.2 '95 & '99 Homo Sapiens, feline recessive

She's blue in shed and cranky, but coming along. Will post with updates. Thanks!
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Desiderata Baby!

1.0 '08 BRB "Orion"
0.1 '07? BRB "Cassiopea"
0.1 '09 Cal King. "Pandora"
0.1 '09 Apricot Hondo "Speckles"
1.0 '08 Tang. Hondo "Bates"
0.0.1 '09 Eastern Garter winter refugee "Jumper"
2.1 '08 Domestic Ferrets "Hobbs, Meenu & Stash"
0.2 '95 & '99 Homo Sapiens, feline recessive

See how she does with this shed. If the shed comes off easily in one or two big pieces you have her humid enough. If the shed is difficult or comes off in tatters it is usually a sign that the snake is too dry. It is important to make sure they are not too dry while on antibiotics.