Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My male L.t.t. is ready to go, but the ladies aren't quite ready. After about an hour or so the female finally had enough and let him know it! At least he knows NO means NO as he frantically tries to get as far away as fast as possible after she bites him, lol. This also happened a couple weeks ago when they were introduced. From others experience, is this common? and how do you know when the females are definitely ready? I'm very hesitant to leave them alone overnight after some of the horror stories I've read and heard about. Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.

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Joe

Joe,....I could have SWORN that amel was supposed to be a male, wasn't it???..LOL!

But anyway, yeah, that can happen sometimes when females get annoyed with the male and they aren't quite ready yet. I DEFINITELY wouldn't leave them together unattended either.

Simply introduce them about every week or so, and you will see their behavior gradually change, until she slows down and becomes receptive to him. When she stops pulling her tail away and hiding it from him when he tries to intertwine his, you will know things are about to happen.

And her laying there motionless with her tail up and cloaca gaped is even better yet!

My Outerbanks female went to eat my smaller male as soon as she saw him yesterday, so I will take that as a definite sign that she is not quite ready yet. Glad I immediately grabbed her before she could get some coils going on him too!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I've always heard "laying there motionless" is a sign she's unreceptive too... (something about "thinking of the flag"...

Never mind. I won't go there. Forget it.
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

LOL!,..yeah, with humans it would pretty much be a dead give away of being "unreceptive".

Guess all this should be looked at as being very species specific, as to what it would actually mean..LMAO!!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Doug, we all know how UGLY that male is! Maybe she is just trying to show a little self respect! Dont worry Joe, we all know that self respect thing is just temporary!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Doug, we all know how UGLY that male is! Maybe she is just trying to show a little self respect! Dont worry Joe, we all know that self respect thing is just temporary!

The ladies will learn to love the mutant! (I hope)
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Joe

Now you are talking about something everyone on the forum can relate to! Well, maybe not everyone, safe to say some of the geekish milkheads are still buying flowers...LMAO

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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

Joe, there have been several occasions that morphs were lost because the adults wouldnt breed(leucy amaura, hypo mole)....and luckily I dont think you will have that problem. Often a young male wont know how to "treat" a lady, and even if she is receptive young males have been known to MISS too! Adding to that are the inherant problems of associating TIMING with more northern lattitude specimens. Feed the female HEAVY and be in tune with her shed cycles, if she is coming up on one she could be grumpy even if she looks normal. Also, put the male in a bigger sweater box or tank and and give them a week off. A WC female may like to be pursued more and being closer together may get on her nerves. We have all felt like that havent we??

Sometimes the girls just play "hard to get". They can ensure that they're getting the best genes for their offspring by putting up a fight and therefore only mating with strong, vigorous males. Of course, we've probably all seen females that lift their tail and "gape" as soon as a male's introduced, too... Different tactics for different snakes!

Certainly be cautious about leaving the guy unattended for too long - I lost a one-of-a-kind male multistrata this spring to a cannibalism event...

-Cole

Cole, Thanks, and sorry to hear about your mutistrata loss. That is my biggest fear.
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Joe

Oh yeah, it was horrific. I thought I was going to lose them both. He was nearly as large as her, and she looked like she was going to explode for several days after the "incident"... Not a fun experience!

-Cole

Check to see if you for sure have a pair. Looks like male combat to me.

ECT

>>Check to see if you for sure have a pair. Looks like male combat to me.
>>
>>ECT

Thanks. I don't believe that to be the case, but I'll check again. I've never seen male combat. My male (the albino) actively pursues the normal, including trying to get on top, lining up, biting to try to subdue, lots of tail wiggling trying to align, etc. After a while the normal has had enough and bites the albino. He scurries away as fast as possible...
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Joe

He definately is a male, but for now he is a gurlie-man. This is why you ask questions about a new snake being "proven". Sometimes it takes em a couple years to figure out how to unhook the bra....

Forgive the obvious but....

Sometimes inexperienced males irritate females. Give him time, he'll figure it out but his chances are best with a smaller equally experienced (or inexperienced) female.

The female should always be well fed and hydrated. Nice vintage bottle of water from Figi couldn't hurt.

Move her to the male's cage. In my experience females are more receptive if the place is clean.

Milks are crepuscular (active during dusk and dawn) so dimming the lights might help.

Given the stakes here, I'd put on some Barry White and try not to be too anxious about the outcome.

Good luck!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Thanks Tony. I'll have to download some Barry onto my snakePod and play it softly next week. And have a lot of patience of course.
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Joe

A little spike in that fiji water might work. Normally I'd recommend the drink called "the leg spreader"(anyone ever see HOT DOG THE MOVIE??)but she's got no legs....

Joe,
Sounds like you are doing everything wrong bud.I say just send them to me and I will get the bred.LOL....

But no, it sounds like the male is ready but the female isn't so just keep trying.Its pretty rare that a new set will be ready at the same time in my limited experiance.

At times the female will be ready and it seems that the male doesn't know what to do.They actually do know what to do its just not time.The females have a pretty good size window and the males have even a bigger male so just keep trying and they will get lined up.
L8r Shannon

>>Joe,
>>Sounds like you are doing everything wrong bud.I say just send them to me and I will get the bred.LOL....
>>
>>But no, it sounds like the male is ready but the female isn't so just keep trying.Its pretty rare that a new set will be ready at the same time in my limited experiance.
>>
>>At times the female will be ready and it seems that the male doesn't know what to do.They actually do know what to do its just not time.The females have a pretty good size window and the males have even a bigger male so just keep trying and they will get lined up.
>>L8r Shannon

Thanks bud. What's that address again? and do you prefer UPS ground or US Postal?

Seriously though, I do appreciate the input!
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Joe

>>My male L.t.t. is ready to go, but... he frantically tries to get as far away as fast as possible after she bites him, lol.

Joe, just as a precaution, i'd probe both animals again. Sometimes when animals don't act the way their gender's supposed to, it's because they're not! I raised a "pair" of hondurans to adulthood and when i first put them together the behavior just didn't seem right. The second or third try it dawned on me...they were both males. I'd gotten them from a well-known, experienced breeder so didn't probe to confirm; he'd done the same. So it was a three-generation error, by three guys who should have known better. This might not be the case in your situation, but i think it's good general advice for everyone to keep in mind.

>>>>My male L.t.t. is ready to go, but... he frantically tries to get as far away as fast as possible after she bites him, lol.
>>
>>Joe, just as a precaution, i'd probe both animals again. Sometimes when animals don't act the way their gender's supposed to, it's because they're not! I raised a "pair" of hondurans to adulthood and when i first put them together the behavior just didn't seem right. The second or third try it dawned on me...they were both males. I'd gotten them from a well-known, experienced breeder so didn't probe to confirm; he'd done the same. So it was a three-generation error, by three guys who should have known better. This might not be the case in your situation, but i think it's good general advice for everyone to keep in mind.

Thanks Terry. This is exactly the insight I was looking for, and somewhat expecting. The "female" normal is a wc and was probed previously. That's not to say a mistake was not made when probing, and I plan on probing her again in the near future to confirm.

The amel is definately a male and definately exhibiting breeding, and not what I would call "combat", characteristics. As I mentioned above the male (the albino) actively pursues the normal, including getting on top, lining up, biting to try to subdue, lots of tail wiggling trying to align, etc. This sounds like an absurd question, but I have to ask. All joking aside, have any of you experienced a know male snake trying to breed with another known male in the past?

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Joe

Joe,

I kept a moderate collection of corns in addition to my milks at one time (many moons ago). While cleaning tubs and transferring males around for breeding purposes, I placed two males (a classic amelanistic and a South Florida 'Miami') in the same tub for approximately an hour to get them "fired" up. When I opened the tub, the male amel had pinned and was "breeding" the male 'Miami'. Seriously... there was penetration. I won't get into the details, but it was gruesome. I ended up giving the male 'Miami' several weeks off to recuperate, but he had a very successful season and sired many clutches in spite of being raped.

Needless to say, I no longer place two males together (any species) to get them going... shed skins work well and lack the risk of sodomy.

-Cole

Wow!!,.......

I guess the "Brutus beef cakes" male that raped the other one figured you were simply tossing in a prison "cell-mate" for him to enjoy after all his solitary confinement..LOL!!

That is really screwed up bro!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I have never experienced this personally, but I have heard of this very thing happening to some others in the past.

No doubt they were "HOMO-zygous"..LMAO!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Again, thanks for the advice. I did probe again this evening and the normal is a female. I (well HE) will keep trying.

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Joe