Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is your opinion of the environmental impact of our hobby? If you haven't faced this discussion before you probably will at some point. Wild caught animals are often over collected, habitats can be destroyed for the purpose of collecting. You could say that captive breeding eliminates this, however, as an animal becomes more popular due to captive breeding, cheap wild-caughts become more attractive to the market to new breeders and those seeking new blood. Captive breeding can often create more demand. Also captive breeding is not preservation. A captive breed animal is removed from the process of natural selection and may be detrimental if released back into the wild. for example a captive raised adult released into the wild could out compete an adult wild conterpart for a mate and yet pass on genes that would cause the next generation to crash. Secondly, though our laws over look this, not all herps of the same species are the same. The truth, and we herpers know this, every location represents a unique and often strikingly different subset of phenotypes. releasing captive bred herps can destroy local specializations that have taken thousands of years to develop.Lets not even mention invasive species outcompeting natural residents. Though it may sound like I am down on the hobby there are some real upsides, first the greatest threat to a species is not from collecting or captive releases, but from habitat loss. While our hobby does not preserve the wild, it can preserve a captive version of an animal whose habitat is doomed due to farming or industrialization. Secondly it generates the knowledge and understanding of a particular species environmental needs which helps us better understand our impact on their environment. that said, it is my opinion that we as herpers must be aware that we are consumers of a natural resource and be advocates for the protection of habitat, and proper management of this resource.

Very good post.I do not agree with 100% of it but 99 I do.Mabie 99.99999.I have scene the distruction of many habitats as well as the dessimation of entire species where I live ..Mostly from pesticides but garter snake and hog nose collectors as well.Tiger salamander ponds now empty of life from over collecting for bait as well as pets..The problem is there is no balance.Here on the cotton field plains the habitats are all but gone.There are a select few that hound ever piece of earth left up here to take the reptiles.ans amphibians with only the all mighty dollar in mind.They make me sick and I wish that a few counties would ban collecting all together with in them..There are places however where it should be ok to, collect.The problem is not every one cares and those who do not will kill it all for every one.In my youth I was a commercial collector and shipped way to many wild cought snakes this I regret.Times have changed so have I.i WILL STILL SELL A COLLECTED SNAKE BUT RARELY AND ONLY FROM A CERTIAN LOCATION TO A CERTIAN PERSON.I now must know where all my animals go period and will not sell a snake to any one I do not know to be a good breeder or keeper.I deal with venomous and if you email me and then do not call me you will get no snake that I bred period.It is a time to be choosey about all aspectes of this hobby includeing over collecting as well as locality.
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Archie Bottoms

I think there are smart ways to collect. That done properly collecting can be done without any noticable impact. For one thing we should not collect breeding size adults as a rule. For some reason we have the idea that smaller ones should be thrown back and larger ones kept, but in nature it is the breeding adult that has proven itself worthy of reproduction that should be protected. Nature has provided for predation by supplying a large number of off spring expecting that only a few will survive and master their environment. I would think that removing a single breeding size adult animal has a tenfold impact on their numbers were as removing a neonate is virtually harmless given that the odds are that it would most likely become prey before reproducing. Secondly, we should not employ any destructive collecting habits, if you have to tear apart a log to get to snake, then you should just let it go. If you move a rock, put it back. These seem like common sense but it is suprising how many people do not apply them. We need to police each other and educate those that would think that it is okay to empty a field of every last garter or kingsnake.

The problem lies in each individual and there collecting habits .Like I said in my youth I made many mistakes that was then.Now I collect at night with a flash light and almost never flip anything.I seek out the young of the year or the year before.There are only 4 of 5 species I would even collect period.These guys live high up in the mountains and I have to walk miles to find any. Yet I will collect some adults as well.But my catching 4 or 5 snakes a year now as compared to the thousands I did as a kid makes a difference.I no longer care about quantity and only quality snakes go home.Last year I collected 3 snakes but found many more.Policing the industry is a hard task as it lies in each persons hands.I am glad they banned box turtles here as I never sold any in my life yet others did make a living on them.The truth is it will not be long before it all comes to an end .People do not understand what we do.
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Archie Bottoms

My suspicion is that locally, there's minimal to no impact. Where I live, all the animals that you'd find that are in any demand are readily available as inexpensive CB stock. We've got 20 some species locally but only a handful are common in the pet trade--Western hogs, bulls, ribbon snakes, great plains rats, desert kings. We've got lots more but I just never see them in the trade either as CBB or WC (Seriously, how many Tantilla or Diadophis or Masticophis get sold?). In some areas, with some species particularly there may be more of an issue. I've heard uro's got hit pretty hard, and I understand that at some points, corns and kings have been overcollected. That was before my time though. Maybe in some areas things like garters and rough greens and green tree frogs are still over-collected, but I haven't seen it. I can't comment. The places I've been where they're native, they still *seem* fairly common, but I haven't exactly gone and conducted a survey.

Personally, I have *one* wild caught animal in my collection; I think I can say that my personal buying habits have little to no impact on wild populations. The rest are CBB, usually for at least 4-5 generations (the retics are more likely 2-3 generations).
I'd really need numbers though, and I don't think anyone keeps track of the numbers of native wildlife collected.

As far as exotics, and the effects collection has on them--I really don't know. Are we pushing balls, savs, waters, retics, etc. towards becoming endangered by collecting? How would I find out? That's not rhetorical either. I want to know how I'd find out--what studies I can read, import figures, etc.

Given most reptiles reproductive rates, I'd expect it's more difficult to collect any given species to the point of endangering it than it was with parrots, say. The biggest threat comes from damage to the habitat (i.e., destroying cover while searching for animals, disturbing dens, etc). But that's a slightly educated guess, nothing more.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa