Reptile & Amphibian Forums

can people share their experiences with pairs or groups of any of the indicus complex raised together from hatchlings.I found it interesting reading a post recently where FR has tried to pair up Tricolored Monitors(Varanus yuwonoi) with unfortunate results.

Try reporting that in context. That was the only species where it failed. May I add, they were wild caught young animals, not captive hatched. Also they were not hatchlings, but instead, young animals. Which does lower the chance of success.

Also, behavior is not clear cut, or math. If you do this, it will not always result in that. Such is behavior. Its about percentages. If you raise them together, a high percentage of the time it will work. This is true with all species.

Some individuals will simply not get along, and I don't care what species or what kind of animal, social or not. Its about indviduals.

In that group, the male tricolored, did not get along with any monitors. He did not pester others, or harass them, he simply walked over, and killed them with one bite over the heart, a kill shot so to speak.

It taught me lots, it taught me that if a monitor wants another one dead, they know how to do that.

Anyway, what you and others need to understand, working with varanids is all about BEHAVIOR(ethlogy) and not math. Behavior is fluid and not set in stone. Varanids are very generalized physically(for lizards) But very specialized behaviorally.

The one single tool, trick, husbandry tool, of raising them together is good, but its only one tool of many. You should really ask what raising them in groups does for the monitors. Because that is the key. Cheers

I am sorry FR,what I implied was incorrect.I look forward to your feedback it is very insightful.What I was looking for was feedback on behaviour of monitors when they were kept together from hatchlings.I'm possibly interested in getting a pair of doreanus hatchlings,but i don't expect others experiences would be duplicated.Most feedback i've gotten has been to dicourage me from getting even one doreanus.An animal that might hide 99% of the time,an animal that might charge me when i open their enclosure,an animal which is expensive to feed and maintain,and an animal that can do lots of damage with it salvadori like teeth.But if people followed this advise nobody would be keeping these interesting creatures.I have a passion for what they are-not instilling human qualities.Whether i get a doreanus or jobiensis or whatever I would like positve feedback-in the past i have kept monitors incorrectly-now i have the opportunity to do it right with your guys help. thks

To add to my last comment and to reply about what keeping the monitors does for them-i have to admit my agenda is selfish.With the laws coming forth in US,as i am from Canada,i'm worried that in the near future reptiles wil not be available-except as captive bred and maybe not even then. As far as i know not many are working with indicus complex monitors-correct me if i am wrong-i've been wrong before ha ha

Hi Moe, I am new to the monitor world but keep doreanus. This was my first monitor and was a horrible first choice. However I love them. I have recently even acquired a cage mate. I am within the first 24 hours of them being kept together. so far so good. FR is right, if a monitor wants another one dead it will make it so. Mine have been "discovering dominance" The larger of the 2 even inflicted a bit of a bite, but that was to be expected. They are doing well together. I will keep everyone posted.

Again I am just a rookie but I want to say I love this species of monitor. My experiences have been great! Its all about understanding the monitor, and not crossing ITS boundaries. If you do this, you WILL have a very scared and unpredictable captive. My First Doreanus will come out of his cage to me. on his own. I never control him but am able to interact with him regularly without being bitten, or whipped (scratches are another story..) I can not contest to the new doreanus's behavior because I just acquired him.

If you are serious about this species, do your homework and be prepared for a massive cage, with high maintenance. 70-90% humidity with high heat is not an easy feat...

Good luck and stick with it if you think you are ready for it!

thanks Ed for the response,I've been following your threads on the various forums.I'm jealous,as I have seen your posted photos of your first Doreanus,beautiful.They have a seek profile with the head kind of like a cross between an indicus and croc monitor.I've had rudicollis in the past which had a huge cage-i left them on their own,I didn't need to handle them.Unfortuneatly
I didn't know they required the area of high temperature-if I only knew what i know now-thankfully there are so many knowledgeable people on these forums we can learn from,mistakes they made(I made) we can avoid.

If your can start with three or four as close to hatchlings as you can, you should not have any problems. With that number, you should have both sexes.

You are right, not many people are seriously working with the indicus group. I have a pair of peach throats here, they actually belong to a good friend of mine. They are together all the time and do very well. They always play follow the leader. If one comes out, the other does, if one goes in, the other does, hahahahahahaha.

They are just now becoming sexually mature.

Anyway, I made a point on another forum and that was, X amount are imported, most, nearly all die in the first year.

What that means is, Go ahead give it a try, you cannot do worse then that. But you can surely do better, then that. The ones here need homes where the people care for the animal.

Good luck

I hope to change the name and reputation of this species. I think they have a lot of potential. ONLY with the RIGHT keeper. They have some very difficult requirements, but if you can meet them and learn to work on the animals terms I think they can be amazing. I hope to someday be able to breed this species.

FR I think you would agree there is some great potential in the indicus group. I owe a huge thanks to FR for getting me to where I am now.. They are a real commitment..

Thanks,
Ed

Ed, I'm glad to hear that scotts little doreanus is getting along well so far. I hope it continues to go well for you, it would be really cool if they make good long term cage mates. I think you will do that lizard a lot of good. A larger humid cage and cage mate is what it needed. I've got my fingers crossed for you. Cheers
Eric

Thanks Eric, things are going pretty well! I have my fingers crossed. He has taken to his new cage well. It is very active and out a lot. Its a lot of fun to see these lizards move so freely. Its amazing how fast they can move. Lots of fun! I have my fingers crossed! I hope they make good friends!

Thanks,
Ed

Thats why I love monitors so much. You get more back from them than other reptiles. Especially when they are in a large cage where they can be free to move about show you their behavior. I remember back when I first introduced my sand monitors. I went to put the smaller one in the big cage and the larger one thought it was food. Monitor lizards are the closest thing you can get to the dinosaurs we all were fascinated by as kids.

I have a group of Jobiensis (2.0.3)they are housed together and I have had no problems with them.I have only had them for a month,and they are still young.Doruanus make horrible breeding projects,and are not good captive on a whole.They are well known for killing each other.I would not recommend you trying a breeding project with them unless you have a good amount of experince with monitors.Jobiensis have been bread in captivity and make much better captives.They can be shy when young,but some will settle down in captivity.

Greg
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1.1 Varanus Rudicollis(Black roughneck monitor)
2.0.3 Varanus jobiesis
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle

Thanks for your input manchild.

My experience so far differs greatly. My doreanus is about 34 inches long and doing very well in captivity. I do agree they have very specific and even difficult husbandry requirements, and if those cant be met, yes, they wont last long. My doreanus will come out of its cage on its own, has not problem eating and is putting on size well. Its really important that you do things are THEIR terms other than that so far the most difficult part of working with these animals have been maintaining the proper environment.

thanks,
Ed

You still can't ignore others experiences with Doreanus,to keep one singly as opposed to a pair I imagine can be quite different if they aren't given the space,enough hiding spots,visual barriers.If you take into account territorial behavior,what person can supply the necessary requirements,realistically.My issue is, am i devoted enough to supply the room a group would require.That's why I have been thinking about Jobiensis-i agree with Manchild,jobiensis would be a better choice

No offense, but what makes you think they are different, I have kept both and did not have a problems that were different then any other monitor. The one pair that I started to pair up here, was amoung the nicest monitors I have kept and they were large adults when introduced.

One of the main problems with shy species is, you do not see the key stages that need to be seen. Like breeding and nesting. Often nesting is missed and the eggs go bad. This is what happened to the above pair(at a friend of mines house)

The problem with doreanus is getting healthy animals. Which is the problem with most species.

As far as I can tell, people kill off most all species of varanids. Including captive hatched ackies and such. So what difference does it make? Ed is willing to take animals that are already in captivity and doing the best he can.

So, I think we should try and support him the best we can.

It sort of bothers me your approach, If Ed does not get them, who do you think will?????? Some expert???? or some inexperienced person? At least Ed is doing the best he can. Cheers

Thanks for the support FR! Truth is I am trying the best I can. I and I do think I am more suited than many people who take on the species. I having a great time, and so far have had pretty good success. Only time will tell..

Moe, I never said that jobiensis was not a better species in captivity or for you. I have never kept them and have no experience with them. Nor do I know your experience etc.. I simply said to manchild my experience with doreanus differs from his greatly. I am supporting the requirements of a pair of doreanus as we speak.

Good luck guys you can take it from here.

Thanks,
Ed

I agree with you(fr)I do and will support Ed.I think more people should try to pair up monitors instead of giving the a death sentence in a box.I do not agree with the manner in which Ed came across,as I feel he was only looking for the answers he wanted to hear.Now I do think Ed has asked a lot of good questions,and I think he will give them a go.I do hope he proves me wrong.

With that being said,my post was not directed at at is was meant for the op.In my opinion Jobiensis make a better captive then Doranus.Now I have never owned a Blue Tail,and until I recently acquired a group of Peach Throats I have tried to stay away from the Inducus complex(I'm more of a Roughneck kind of guy)

Greg
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1.1 Varanus Rudicollis(Black roughneck monitor)
2.0.3 Varanus jobiesis
0.0.1 Ornate box turtle

I think the problem is more education.There are hardly any good books about keeping monitors by people that actually keep and breed them.And in forums the same biases are repeated,when I ask a questions except from FR and a few others,i get the same responses.This was the first time i have read that jobiensis and doreanus are similar(in detail)?I know Frank you said monitors are basically the same-it's early,so trust me when i say i now where you are coming from.I like Ed am interested in Doreanus so that what i want to hear about-little tidbits about how they are different.
I support Ed,i just meant jobiensis was a better choice if you were limited to space i didn't realize that jobiensis and doreanus can both get to the same size.
That's the problem in forums,if you are not a great communicator your
comments get misinterpreted.Thanks guys I'll just stick to reading the comments. Darren

First, monitors are basically in groups, the gouldi group, the indicus group, the albigularis group, the odatria, etc.

In that, they are very alike. Where they are exactly alike is, the keeping, they all can and will pick their individual and species needs from a relatively narrow set of conditions.

In captivity if you offer temps from a hot area of 150F down to the low seventies and offer choices of humidity from 30% to 80% or so, all species will THRIVE. If you offer the captives the ability to choose or make their own secure places(to burrow) they will thrive. And if you offer a small range of food items. Like WHOLE foods like crickets(or other insects) rodents and birds, they will thrive. All species will. All of the above can be done easily in the same kind of cage. Of yea, they all drink water. Lastly, they are reptiles and are prone to dehydration.

The combination of high heat and air movement can and does cause chronic dehydration. Care must be taken to limit or control dehydration.

Funny but the brief paragraphs above will allow all species to THRIVE and breed in captivity for generations. Not so different are they?

You mentions what is a better species. Sir, peachies are great, but they are NOT a great choice for a beginer. Not any different then Doreanus. In the last grip of years, I think only one female has been successful in the states. So what makes that better?

In my opinion, the best approach for species is, what YOU like and what you can get good individuals of. With captive hatched odatria without question being the BEST to learn from. Cheers

Moe, Like I said earlier I have not kept peachies. However if you would like any info from me on my experiences on doreanus shoot. I love talking critters. Also feel free to shoot me a PM if you like.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed, was wondering if you had posted a picture of your new doreanus yet?
thanks Moe

I have posted any pics of the new one yet. I have been waiting to let them settle in a bit before I bother him with some flash photography. LOL. I will get some up soon. It is very interesting, the two doreanus I have differ greatly in their patterning. I believe i have two different localities. Not sure however.

Thanks,
Ed