Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found a breeder who is trying to tell me that he has a translucent dragon mated with a totally non translucent and the babies are 100% het for trans.

Then he says that two hets mated together are going to give you 66% het for trans.

I think he is off on both of these.

I have a 100% hets for trans... mom was a het trans and dad was a super trans.

The ones that are not trans are 100% het for trans.

thanks for the clarification

Chris Allen posted something about genetics a few posts down.I think those are 100% het if one parent is a trans

A non het X a translucent does not produce 100% het for trans babies.

A translucent X a het for trans will produce 100% het for trans babies.

a trans X a non trans will give you 50% het for trans babies.

They are just as likely to be not het for trans as they are to be het for trans.

Until they can be proven out they are 50% het for trans not 100% het.

a het X het trans will produce 66% translucent dragons. 33% percent will be non het, these are averages based on the punnet square.

The only way they are 100% het for trans is if both panets posses the trans genes. Otherwise it is a 50% and will need to be proven out.

A trans X non trans does not produce 100% hets...

thanks for reply though Angie.

A non het X a translucent does not produce 100% het for trans babies.
Thats wrong. A trans x normal gives you all 100% hets

A translucent X a het for trans will produce 100% het for trans babies.
Also wrong, that would give you some trans and 100% hets
a trans X a non trans will give you 50% het for trans babies.
thats the same as the first trans x normal gives all 100% hets

They are just as likely to be not het for trans as they are to be het for trans.

Until they can be proven out they are 50% het for trans not 100% het.

a het X het trans will produce 66% translucent dragons. 33% percent will be non het, these are averages based on the punnet square.

The only way they are 100% het for trans is if both panets posses the trans genes. Otherwise it is a 50% and will need to be proven out.
Not true, only one parent has to be a trans then all babies are 100% het
A trans X non trans does not produce 100% hets... yes it does

thanks for reply though Angie.

Trans x non het = 100% het trans

trans x het = 50% of the babies should be trans, and 50% of the babies should be normal looking 100% het trans.

trans x trans = 100% transluscent babies

het x het = 25% trans babies, 25% are non het normal looking babies, and 50% of the babies are normal looking 100% het trans. You cant tell which normal babies are hets and which are not so they are usually sold as poss hets(66%)until proven.

het trans x non het = 50% poss het normal trans babies

Het or het to trans breeding are like rolling the dice. the amount of trans babies can vary. The percentages are just averages.

NERD's site is an excellent source for genetic info. Snake/leopard gecko breeders are way far ahead of beardeds on this stuff.

het trans x non het = 50% poss het normal trans babies

meant to say: 50% poss het normal looking babies(not trans)

I agree, thats why I posted that link to Nerd's info below. I've been seeing even people advertising babies as hets and what not, and they really don't even know what they are selling.

I agree with you chris.

Two things i wanted to add is that occasionally you will get a 100% het trans that will turn trans. These will screw up the percentages and have you scratching your head.

Also, there are a LOT of 100% het trans floating around. I have had two people this year tell me that they produced a few trans babies from their normal adult dragons.

Josh

Thats funny you mention that. I had that happen with a baby. Was given to me and looked completely normal. As time went on it turned trans more and more, to a complete trans. Pretty cool.

As Trans are a simple recessive gene, it works like any other recessive gene. There are only a few ways to have a 100% trans (or any other recessive gene). Breed a visual morph (ie a translucent dragon) to any normal dragon, all offspring will be 100% het for translucent.

Any combination of het to het or het to normal will produce possible hets. These can become 100% het only by proven them out (ie by breeding them to a visual morph of the same trait (in this case to a translucent) and if any visual morphs appear in the clutch, then the possible het is now a proven 100% het.

Thus, the 33% or 66% or even 50% possible hets..are just that..a possible carrier of the recessive morph. However alot of people just list as 66% het or whatever...always take anything that is not showing as 100% het as a possible het...whether the breeder remembers to tag on a 'possible' to it or not. There are no partial genes out there...it either carries the trait or doesn't. The actual value of the percentage is just an indication of how much of a chance you have to get a true het out of the clutch. (thus there is more chance to have a het in a het to het crossing than a het to normal crossing, but the punnet square percentages are averages..and its a chance per egg, not per clutch. Its very possible to end up with nothing but normals in a het to het breeding, or even in a het to visual morph breeding. (though in a case of a het to visual morph crossing, you only have two results, hets or visuals...so you are safe to call all the normal looking babies 100% hets).

Also, no translucent offspring would be a 'super translucent' as there is no such thing. 'Super' is a term most often associated with co-dominate traits. Co-dominate traits have two forms of visual expression...the 'het' form looks different from a normal (wild type) appearance. Also, the 'homogeneous' form is also different from a normal looking animal and its own 'het' form.

A good sample of this would be the pastel ball python. Breed a pastel (a co-dominate morph) to another pastel and you would have a 25% of getting a super pastel, a 50% of getting pastels and 25% normal dragons (these won't carry any morph traits, just be a normal wild type version of the animal).

I am not sure if bearded dragons have any co-dominate morphs (maybe the silkies? (super leatherback?)) but I do know ball pythons have several kinds of co-dominate morphs (as do boa constrictors, corn snakes and others), such as yellow belly, mojave, pastel, and others.
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PHLdyPayne

Is usually does work like other simple recessive genes. But, as Josh was pointing out and I had a baby do this to me, sometimes het trans actually turn trans. I've never bred that though, so I'm not sure if it breeds as a trans, or as a het? I'm also not sure how partial trans breed as I haven't done that. Dragons with some white scales, some trans, half trans eyes, one normal eye one trans, etc.

The silk, is the super form of the leather.

I was told by a breeder that a super translucent was a superior translucent dragon that shows no whiteness and is very clear.

Super translucent: no white very very clear

translucent: pretty clear minimal white

Partial Trans: some white some trans

Het for trans

No trans

Kinda like a grading scale.

Is this not true?

My personal opinion is its just a marketing tool. I can see having translucents and partial transulucents. What exactly would determine a super translucent? Does it reproduce any different than a regular translucent? If its just not having white scales to it, to me that is what a good translucent should be.

I have to say I am no expert when it comes to translucent dragons and exactly how the trait works genetically. If it does work as a simple recessive, some recessive morphs do have 'het markers'. Basically a het animal has some distinguishing characteristic which marks it as a carrier of the morph, but isn't so distinct for the morph to be considered a true 'co-dom'.

The 'super translucent' may just be a marketing term to describe a translucent with no white or very little white...kind of like a high white piebald ball python morph. Piebald is a recessive trait and produces ball pythons which a normal colored/patterned head and neck with varying sizes of opaque white patches. A high white has more white than 'normal' color on the snake...but genetically it is still just a regular piebald...as offspring from even two high white can all turn out as 'average' white piebalds or even low whites and vise versa.

A super translucent would just be a very 'extreme' sample of the recessive trait.

There could also be other factors involved with the translucent trait that isn't yet understood which could make offspring from hets or visual translucent parents vary in the degree of translucents shown in the offspring. Just as in a single clutch of dragons you can see a range of color, some animals being much brighter than its siblings.
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PHLdyPayne

josh, wanna buy lil bro one of your dragz, anything putple or lavender, only been askin for a purple for approx 4 years from you...lol. dan and i just hatches out a ton of babies, i have some new crosses unrelated to yours like the sat spotted red leathers and my appolo babies from the og apollo from tammy. please and i beg u again boss man please just pick up the phone.3107751334

The dragon you have was from a clutch where they were either trans or 100% hets. They are 100% hets because the one parent was an actual trans, not because both were carriers of the gene.

The breeder is correct on both accounts, to be clear.
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PHLdyPayne

Awesome thanks guys...

I just bought a female and thought I was going to have to breed her to see if she was proven out to be a true 100% het trans.

Here is the female I bought:

Here is dad:

citrus trans

Here is mom:

citrus

I have some dragons from a het for trans hypo X trans

They are these three guys:

same dragon as above

same citrus as above

and Ashen:
same dragonsame dragon

Their father:

All from the same clutch.

Mom was a het trans hypo like I said.

That's awesome this girl will be 100% het for trans then.

thanks for clearing that up