Reptile & Amphibian Forums

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate..."

One group talks apples and the other group talks oranges.

Lets just say the apples group is realist and practical.

Lets say the oranges group is idealistic and impractical.

What the oranges want is something they have never even known in their own lifetimes. To take the clock back to theoretical virgin country with only native wildlife abundant. The original wildlife heritage has already been lost and it cannot ever be reclaimed. It is an impossibility. We don't have Holodeck technology yet and the Everglades isn't the Starship Enterprise. It is a pipe dream. Idealistic snobbery.

What the apples want is practical solutions, while working with the resources that we have now. This is a reality. You can go forward from here, but you cannot turn the clock back.

The oranges say the pythons do not belong in the Everglades. No argument there, but to think removing the Pythons is going to solve all the Everglade's problems is pure fantasy. The Pythons are but a symptom. Not the disease. Man is the disease.

The ones that want to turn the clock back are nothing more than a bunch of pretentious snobs. It's not good enough unless it's back to the condition it was in, 200 years ago. That's just never going to happen. Quit dreaming. Lets get real.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Isn't it funny how a man can recognize the simple fact that a piece of land will only support so many cows depending on the character of the land and the climate?

Of course, the formula varies by type of livestock and available environment. How much grass can the dirt grow in relation to how much nutrition and water his livestock need to grow and prosper.

It is empirical and it is intuitive.

So -- how come Man cannot realize that the environment can only support so many humans doing so many human activities?

Is it because we are naturally selfish and greedy? Are we kidding ourselves?

Is it because we feel we are special and that we are self absorbed and are therefore entitled to make the rules we choose when it suits us?

Is it because we see ourselves as Demigods, created in the image of God and can therefore do no wrong?

I don't know, but a little self examination might be just what Humanity needs right now.

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

You seem to assume that folks think that solving the python problem will make the Everglades all better. The fact is, they probably just want to solve the python problem.

Throwing up ones hands and saying that one shouldn't try because, against the larger backdrop, the Everglades will still be in trouble demonstrates a lack of character and moral compass.

NOt unlike the But Mooooom, EVERYBODYS Doing It!!!!! defense of ones actions...

Steph, I don't believe your premise: that there is, indeed, a "PYTHON PROBLEM". PROVE IT!!!

Add, prove it with peer-reviewed scientifically verifiable facts and quantifiable statistics - not newspaper reports, not quotes from the animal rights movement and not quotes from ill-informed politicians. And, don't ask me to prove the negative, either, because IT IS YOU WHO IS ASSERTING THAT THERE IS A "PYTHON PROBLEM".

If you can't prove your claims, then you are no more than a propaganda mouthpiece for the animal rights zealots.

You appear to be in deep denial. I can't help you with that but maybe this gal can:

Snarky today, are we?

When one lacks anything valid to say on the subject, and is at risk of looking like a fool, snark is always the obligatory filler.

Next come the "your momma" jabs.

Yes, I'm afraid the conversation has degenerated to the point of personal jabs and quips to see who is the most clever. Nothing of substance, too bad.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

LOL... Sorry, Steph, wrong again, and a further illustration of your remarkable ability to post things without any proof whatsoever.

Just so that no one here is deceived by your unsupported comments, I would suggest reading the following PIJAC Submission to the USFWS Rule Change to add 9 constrictors as injurious animals to the Lacy Act to understand how flawed the argument in favour of this rule change really is:

PIJAC Submission to the USFWS Rule Change

Very well written from Pijac.

"You seem to assume that folks think that solving the python problem will make the Everglades all better."

That is exactly what the ban python folks DO say! They say the Pythons are destroying the Everglades!

That is one of their prime talking points.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

"You seem to assume that folks think that solving the python problem will make the Everglades all better. The fact is, they probably just want to solve the python problem."

Your statement only confirms the notion that you are in fact an idealist with a distinct view on what is proper and what is not.

What economic burden placed on Society in order to rectify this completely unacceptable situation (opinion), that is so disturbing to you and others, is sufficient?

Be sure to stay in touch. When they come and take away your "Boxies", you be sure to let me know just "How does that make you feel?".

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

"...they probably just want to solve the python problem."

The "Python problem" as you so aptly put it, is more or less a ginned up talking point of the Animal Rights Establishment, in order to insight popular opinion and indignation sufficient to ban the trade in several species of the "wild animals" it is their goal to eliminate, as stated in their Mission Statement.

Certain individual's idealistic sensibilities and personal conceptualizations seem violated by such talk. Those personalities are very sensitive to such notions. And so they eagerly join the cause, in order to right the terrible injustice done to our Natural Heritage by those horrible people that keep and breed those horrible Pythons. "They're sickos anyway. Why on earth would anyone want to keep a pet Python?

And the villagers say, "Get out the torches we're going to the top of the hill, to kill the Beast". It's just vigilante justice, lynch mob mentality.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

On another note, Steph, with just a little over 7 hours remaining to make a submission to USFW on the request for public comment on the proposal to add nine species of boas and pythons to the U.S. Lacy act, did you make a comment? If so, I would certainly like to read it. Please post your comment tracking number.

LOL

It is going to be against allowing the folks the freedoms to keep these and other species of animals she does not deem as suitable captives.

I recall her on the box turtle forum saying something along the lines of "serves us right" when the ban was first talked about - To me it seems like she came over here to pick a fight many times.

Its disappointing that the hobby is so incredibly fragmented.

Divided we fall.

It's a disappointment to read many of the comments that are posted here: so many people appear to be unwilling to be proactive about policing themselves, so that ALL of us can enjoy a measure of freedom when it comes to animal ownership.

Such a shame. A few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch....

At least one, I'd say.....

"It's a disappointment to read many of the comments that are posted here: so many people appear to be unwilling to be proactive about policing themselves..."

You are being mean spirited and disingenuous with that one. We're all for being proactive. That's what we're all about.

Quit drawing conclusions not in evidence, in other words, you are speaking for us. Don't put words in our/my mouth. That is wrong.

A complete prohibition is the position of not being proactive. That is the one you seem to be defending.

"so that ALL of us can enjoy a measure of freedom when it comes to animal ownership."

How judgmental and self righteous can one get! You poor victim, you.

Your comments are sounding more and more lite a spiteful little child that hasn't gotten her way.

This conversation does become more irrelevant and more tedious as it wears on.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Just hit the "ignore" button, John. Was that letter I sent of any interest to you?

I'm done.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer