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I really chuckle every time I see a care sheet or Internet article stating the commonly believed myth: "Overnight temperatures should not go below seventy degrees Fahrenheit. If temperature is too low, regurgitation or other problems may occur".

It's been quite awhile now since I caught on to the fact (from personal observation, and stated in better field guides and species documentation) that overnight lows into the high 40s are common in North America, even in summer. Wild snakes can easily accommodate low temperatures in the 50s and high 40s as long as normal basking can occur during the day.

Overnight lows of normal room temperature in 60s, and even into the 50s, are completely fine for most captive specimens.

Last April, following an accidental drop from a platform, my male Cal King was lost in my yard when the temperature was 68 degrees. (He had last eaten 7 days before, thankfully.) An immediately cold front came into the area, bringing low temperatures into the 40s during more than two weeks he was missing.

I never gave up hope and searched often in my yard & surrounding areas.

During a partially sunny day when the high temperature reached 54 degrees, I found him sunning under some tall grass, just yards from where he had escaped! He had not found a brumation site, and the ground was too wet for rodent burrows. He had been hiding in unmowed, tall grass.

Back inside my home, I held him for a long time as he warmed. He gave one big, brief shudder - just like you or I would after enduring a long, cold spell. He's been exhibiting normal behavior ever since, and actively explores his vivarium for hours each day.

*Please update the applicable care sheets & husbandry articles.)

Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Lampropeltis getula californiae (Carlsbad Wide-banded morph)
0.1 Lampropeltis getula californiae (Los Angeles County Coastal Banded morph)
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And where I live in Arizona (5,000 ft elevation) the night time temps drop drastically and it ain't that warm underground either. Just like when snakes where I live lay eggs......what do you think the incubation temps are? It sure ain't 82 degrees or higher, I would say definitely lower.

Kerby...
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what I have trouble with......

you post that you chuckle and think that it's stupid that snakes are to not be too cold at night....

yet when you say your king escaped...you said..."thankfully he had not eaten for 7 days"......therefore you agree that low temps are bad and if he would ahve JUST eaten he would have regurged or worse?......correct....

...then you say you held him to warm him...and he shuddered just like we do when coming in from the cold....

seems to me...you confirmed tha fact that too low a temp is bad for snakes and that they actually WANT and need warm temps...?

.yes it gets cold at night....yes snakes are out in the snow covered grounds of March.....yes they hate it at 100 degrees....
yet given a choice they would stay around 85....

....I bought mountain kings to utilize the lowest levels of unheated racks....in a heated room...guess what...they don't likw it at 79....they want 85.....I have ball pythons that can take colder temps than some colubrids.....

yes....IF the snake gets 90 for hours a day...70 at night is fine...yes...it's all about evening things out.....

....I had a burm looong ago...no heat,on floor ,never sick always ate and did fine....in a house...set at 65 in winter....
I would never do that now...

........I'm done rambling.....
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......JY

I don't think that there are any kings that would normally choose to be at 85 all the time.

My snake room has a large window that stays open 24/7. It frequently gets down to the 60s at night. The heaters are always on too. So during the day the gradient is maybe 75-90 and at nights (depending on the temps outside) its probably 65-80. These are cal kings that I am talking about.

My snakes eat like pigs and I frequently find them on the COLD side in the mornings. Usually not after a huge meal, but sometimes. In my experience, cal kings prefer to be at around 70 unless they have just eaten or are gravid etc.

70.......I have 0 snakes that want that....as said...they usually prefer the 85 side....all species....

......my idea....I know...you agree to disagree....no sweat...

....my cold cages are ridleyi...I feed them slower than I want......pyro / knoblochi...they hate it at 78.........
and some corns....most are not happy at all at under 80....

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......JY

I would be hard pressed to believe snakes kept at nightime lows that low would be feeding regularly and at all. Sure, they can survive those temps and I routinely keep mine between 55-60 degrees for three months out of the year. They are brumating and not expending energy or FEEDING!! Experience has shown me that they can and will regurge or not feed at all if the temps are not correct or optimum for them. Every snake is different with different metabolisms, just like humans, so there is room for error. However, I do not think a snake kept at 40-50 degrees everynight is going to feed well or at all regardless if the basking temps get up to 70-80 degrees in the day. In those situations, the snakes are probably not being subjected to the ambient temps due to burrowing below ground or within rock fissures, rotting wood, or under tin which all can keep the temps elevated to a more optimum temp.

Around here, we have nighttime temps in the 50s-low 60s most of the year. Today's high is supposed to be 90; the low is supposed to be 45. The temp plummets as soon as we lose the sun. They're mostly out during the day right now, particularly right before dusk really starts dropping the temps. In June/July we have warmer nighttime temps and yeah, nights get more productive for herping then. But animals are certainly out right now.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I've always wondered about that...we have temps down to zero during the winter, and overnight lows into the high 30s even in early summer (the low this week is supposed to be 38). This is Amarillo Texas for god's sakes, not Colorado or Wyoming. And yet herps are active right now. I've found rattlers out during (relatively) warm winter weather when it's in the mid 50s doing fine. This weekend, I found skinks and fence lizards out in the morning...when it was probably 60 (basking), and I found woodhouses' toads and leopard frogs breeding during the early evening.
I'm not saying snakes are out and active during extreme cold (they're not) but 50 isn't extreme to a temperate zone animal either. I wouldn't keep them at 50 during the summer as a rule, but it won't kill them for nighttime temps to drop.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>"This is Amarillo Texas for god's sakes, not Colorado or Wyoming."

LOL....that's because there isn't anything between Canada and Amarillo except for a few barbed wire fences........LOL......The cold wind has a clear path for Panhandle Texas......

I worked in Borger and Dumas a few times.....and Wyoming 8 months in 2008....All too cold for this south Texan......Canton, Ohio for 3 weeks too.....Negative 23F is not worth living in.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I got married in Borger, at the 1st Pres. Church Talk about a dingy little town. It's got a surprisingly low poverty rate but it looks like crap.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Snakes are NOT 6' tall! The temp outside by your window is 10' above the ground...where are the snakes?? Oh ya! They are on THE GROUND!! Ground temp is alot more stable than air temp! Ever go hunting on a 60 degree day and touch a piece of tin that has been exposed to the sun for 6 hours?? Its warm to the touch, more than 90 degrees! Its called KINETIC energy! Snakes with meals have to absorb X amount of kinetic energy to keep the microbes and bacteria digesting their meal. This can be 80 degrees for 10 hours or it can be 100 degrees for a few minutes at a time, it all adds up! If your snake is loose on a 40 degree day, the air temp means NOTHING. What was the temp on the ground the day before? That day? The surrounding debris, anything get REAL hot?? Maybe the snake went underground, temps there are a lot more stable. Ever find snakes near rotting wood? The bacteria in the wood give off heat that the snakes use for their kinetic energy! Thats why tins sites are so great, they are like pit crews at the Indy 500 and snakes can get all the kinetic energy they need so much faster they can move on....letting other snakes take their place!
Now when your snake shuddered, chances are that was to loosen phlegm caused by the start of a respiratory infection. And read all the care sheets that you want at your own risk....they are usually written by 14 yr olds with nothing better to do! There was a guy around here from PA, not old enough to drive but he had a website and a slew of care sheets you could download. Just because its posted online doesnt mean its published!! GET A BOOK!! Books usually have to pass a peer review process that weeds out 14 yr olds and idiots. Usually. Posting a story online doesnt tell the whole story any more than a stupid care sheet. There are background temps, belly temps, and a slew of other important things needed to keep snakes healthy. Most of all they need an educated keeper.

I was thinking the same thing Jeff. I live in MA. also and I have yet to see a snake in the snow. In this region we are below 30 degrees for several months. In southern areas, such as Texas,FLA., and Mexico, the temps drop overnight and reheat in the daytime so the GROUND TEMPS never get that cold. We have building codes here about how deep you have to dig a footing for a building structure. That is based on how deep the frost generally goes. Snakes in this area I assume go beyond that point depth wise. Just an assumption but I've been snake hunting for over 30 years and I always am in the field and yet to observe ANY snake sunning itself. Ground temps are one thing but wind chill is another.

Well the one reason you dont see snakes around here sunning is they simply dont need that much sun. They collect the sun's energy UNDER stuff with the only exception being water snakes.That and they see you coming LONG before your eyes see them! Depth of the frost line is correct, they go deeper. But I have been hunting deer in the first week of December with snow on the ground and found baby milks crawling on trails. That is early december, underground temps still in the 50s even with snow on the ground! They were out moving, but not fast. I remember I put the baby milk in my pocket of my pants, nothing else to put it in. I hunted the rest of the day and had forgotten about it til I went back to the car at the end of the day and sure enough, he liked my nice warm pocket all day!

I don't know what you think our ground temps are here, but they're not exactly warm during the night. They're not usually too terribly different than air temps, particularly in the morning or evening. My driveway is (according to my temp gun) 58 right now, about 5-6 degrees above air temp. And I've observed snakes sunning late in the afternoon and early in the morning (notably bulls, hognoses and the odd thamnophis).
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I have some Mountain kings and they are doing great with night temps into the high 50's/low 60's. I warm them up in the morning and turn the heat off at night. They digest all their food and are breeding like animals. lol

I think that a cool cycle is crucial to their health, and is not a stressful procedure. I find that they actually prefer a schedule of warm and cold. I'm basing this off of results, from the years that I kept them with a constant hot spots. They were just not as active when I kept them warm all of the time. This may sound counter intuitive, but I believe that they are able to rebuild and rest at night.

I do the same for my Kimberly rock monitors. No basking spots at night, just a single ceramic heater to warm the enclosure to about 75-80.

...snakes do all kinds of "unexpected" things...
:Mark
Link

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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

kinetic energy has to do with the extra energy mass holds when moving and is relative. A speeding bullet has kenitic energy if you are standing still, if you are traveling the same speed it has no extra energy.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

The kinetic energy statement had me scratching my head as well. Maybe more along the line of thermodynamics than kinetic energy.
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Joe

You guys are right, I meant "jewels", a value of heat energy. I had my mind on the experiment at the Museum of Science Joe, seen it? My point is these animals store and use heat as energy.

Jewels the singer, or joules the unit of energy?

I haven't been to the Museum of Science in a long, long time. Maybe a good day trip for the kids this summer though.
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Joe

OK, I cant spell. Joe your kids would love the museum. I remember there was a gravity fed machine measuring kinetic energy that was astounding. If you go ask to go behind the scenes to the animal room. In the early days of Mass. Herp Society(LONGGG before there was a NE Herp society-1975, I was 9)they had meetings in the basement. There were guest lecturers from all over the world as the museum is right down the street from Harvard U..Hundreds attended! I'd get a ride in every month from my mom and was rubbing elbows with the guys who wrote the books. There would be all kinds of reptiles for sale because everything was legal. Everyone that had snakes HAD to go there, it was the only place in the state where you could get frozen rodents! I remember Kevin McCurley as the pretentious 15 yr old who had "everything" even at that age! Man, he always had nice stuff. I was the poor kid who would save my paper route money to buy the $2 chinese water snake with the transparent belly. You could see the fish it ate inside! LMAO. The things you remember.

Maybe it's something in the water that I drank today, but now I'm laughing at your subject title.....just too damn funny the dry humor.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

np

Glad you noticed.

I have a Pueblan milksnake setup where night temps drop as low as around 60 during early Spring. Snake does just fine that way. Eats, digests. Heat turns back on in the morning.

I was trying to see if the snake required less food that way compared to another Pueblan milksnake in a cage with a heated end 24/7. I have not noticed enough difference unfortunately. She still eats as much about as often as the other one without being any fatter. So much for me trying to save on some mice.
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Mark

Hi,

I just completed a 16'x 20' building to house part of my collection. This structure is well insulated and has a pellet stove that I run on really cold winter nights here in Buffalo. However, on most nights the air temp drops into the low 60s, sometimes the high 50s inside the structure when the stove is not on. This of course is just the air temps and all animals have access to evening basking temps in the 90s. I rarely see them sitting on heat at night though. Even the gravid pythons and those full fo food will go back and forth between heat and cool at night. During the day, without supplimental heat to warm the air, the building warms up to the high 70s because of the skylights and the animals have access to much higher basking temps (95-105) which they all travel back and forth to. But, my point is when allowed to sufficiently heat up during the day, cool nights (50s- low 60s) will not harm snakes, even gravid females and those stuffed with food. They have options to keep warm, but often choose not to use them. All of the different species in that room, from Morelia and ball pythons to kings make similar temp choices, choices that routinely surprise other keepers who visit. I keep hearing about how my gravid girls will die and my pythons will catch upper respiratory infections, but it doesn't happen. when they need to be warm, they seek warmth from the heat pads, but most of the time, they select much cooler temps than most folks would offer.

Will

That is a good post Will.

Now we just need to save it and post it on every other thread with the same subject matter.

I just completed a 16'x 20' building to house part of my collection. This structure is well insulated and has a pellet stove that I run on really cold winter nights here in Buffalo. However, on most nights the air temp drops into the low 60s, sometimes the high 50s inside the structure when the stove is not on. This of course is just the air temps and all animals have access to evening basking temps in the 90s. I rarely see them sitting on heat at night though. Even the gravid pythons and those full fo food will go back and forth between heat and cool at night. During the day, without supplimental heat to warm the air, the building warms up to the high 70s because of the skylights and the animals have access to much higher basking temps (95-105) which they all travel back and forth to. But, my point is when allowed to sufficiently heat up during the day, cool nights (50s- low 60s) will not harm snakes, even gravid females and those stuffed with food. They have options to keep warm, but often choose not to use them. All of the different species in that room, from Morelia and ball pythons to kings make similar temp choices, choices that routinely surprise other keepers who visit. I keep hearing about how my gravid girls will die and my pythons will catch upper respiratory infections, but it doesn't happen. when they need to be warm, they seek warmth from the heat pads, but most of the time, they select much cooler temps than most folks would offer.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Will,
You observations are an excellent testimony that even large constrictors can use a wider range of temps to acheive what they need.

I think a massive snake can heat up, then move to a cool area, and the snake's internal body temp will stay fairly warm for quite awhile. What would be interesting is to know what the internal body temp is when a big python is well away from the heat. After all, it is the IBT that the snake is ultimately trying to control.
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Mark

I agree Mark, a larger bulkier snake would likely have a much more stable core temp than a relatively thin colubrid and as you said, a stable core temp is probably what they are ultimately seeking. Thanks.

Will

My cabin is heated with a wood stove. In the winter months the nighttime temperature can dip into the low forties on some nights. Hence the temps in the snake cages can drop that low. But all my snakes have a hot spot where they can go to digest their food. As long as they have that UTH hot spot in deep aspen covered by a terra cotta saucer and a cardboard soda flat over that to further hold the heat in that small area, they are fine. If they want to be cool they can move away from the UTH, if they want to warm up they like to coil up right on top of it in their cozy nest. With the longer spring days they are actually spending more time over their UTH's, as they are eating a lot more often, and need the heat for easy digestion. Over the winter they didn't eat nearly as much, and preferred the cooler parts of their habitats. No regurge so all is well. My conclusion is that as long as they have that consistently available hot spot they will do fine.