Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok usually he is all chipper and i fed him last saturday (i always feed him saturdays) he is kinda young born in dec. so i fed him last saturday his usual meal and then friday i went to grab him and he was limp and hardly moving. also he didnt curl his tail around my finger like he usually does. also when i went to put him back in the tank i gave him alittle dip into his water bowl and he didnt react like he usually does. idk whats wrong. any ideas?

The first thing that popped in my mind is intoxication of some sort. Red Ceadar chips will intoxicate and quickly kill a snake especially a young one! If you have him in any strong smelling subtrate remove the stuff immediately and put him on newspaper till you can get some aspen. Other than that you need to give more info. You said he ate, has he been eating fine? Is the temperature around 78 to 82? Did you clean his cage out with some strong cleaner?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

i use aspen bedding specifically this stuff

http://www.petco.com/product/14364/Zoo-Med-Aspen-Snake-Bedding.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

he has been eating fine weekly, the temperature is always between 75 and 85, clean water every other day. i cleaned the cage like a week and a half ago and i only use water because i dont want to use anything too strong like bleach. ive been using the same bedding (same from the bag, not recycling) since i got him in feb.

It is a kingsnake right? It sounds like its dehydrated. How did he act before when you put him in the water bowl? Was he c.b. or w.c?

You are referring to a kingsnake right? You didn't say so I'm guessing it is. It sounds like dehydration to me. How does he usually act when you dip him in the water bowl. Was he C.B. or W.C?

does he look thin/ Is his tail past the vent dehydrated looking?

Could be you need to up the humidity by providing a moist hide box.

Dehydration is ver common with kingsnake in captivity. I find that neonate Florida king can dehydrtae in a couple days left in a deli cup. Bigger ones can last a lot longer of course.

So post some more info. Like what type of king? Something like this is best discussed over the phone because it take to long to narrow it down with the limited responses by asking the right questions. Type up some more info of what you are doing (feeding water, heat space etc). Do you have him by a window? What part of the country do you live in? ..I could go on and on. Just try and post as much info as possible so we can try and help you. Otherwise with limited info you get limited responses-AND PROBABLY THE WRONG ANSWERS!

Can you imagine going to a auto mechanic and say my car stopped running, tell me whats wrong!

Or go to a doctor and say I have a pain in my upper body and the doctor says take two asprin and call me in the morning.

It is obvious there is something wrong with your husbandry. Now it is a matter of figuring out what it is.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Very true, in that case i apologize for the limited information i have supplied you guys with. it is a coastal striped california kingsnake, no window im in a basement. so at night it get slightly colder (72-77) im in PA where again, it gets alittle cold. but i try to keep it warm. one thing i do is the heat pad i put it on the side of the tank instead of under because it get blazing hot (like 90 maybe hotter) and im kinda scared but im sure snakes know better than i do. but one thing i have noticed that about 2/3rds down the body, the snake is sort of unresponsive. like its just there (again it wont wrap around my finger) but it also doesnt tense up or move much at all. i always keep the water bowl atleast half full (cleaning it out of course). what else do you want to know?

at night it get slightly colder (72-77) im in PA where again, it gets alittle cold. but i try to keep it warm. one thing i do is the heat pad i put it on the side of the tank instead of under because it get blazing hot (like 90 maybe hotter) and im kinda scared but im sure snakes know better than i do. but one thing i have noticed that about 2/3rds down the body, the snake is sort of unresponsive. like its just there (again it wont wrap around my finger) but it also doesnt tense up or move much at all.

So let me understand what you meant. the daytime temps go as high as 90f room temperature/ or does the heat pad emit 90F on one end?

Do you have a temp gun to take temps of the hot and cold side/ Snakes need a choice of hot and cold. They thermoregulate and know what to do on their own. if the room is 72-77F then place the heat under one side of the unit and take the temp of the cold side. ultimaly you would want 50-100 temp range. But i know this is hard for some because of room temsp and size of the enloser. So a less desirable range is what we sometimes get. So if the cold side is 72 and the hot side is 90, that is good. What you don't want is to make the choices for the snake.

Now from you description and cold room (I assume you meant it stays cold ?0 it could be the snake has not been able to preperly digest it food.

Or maybe it had an accident and it back was broken?

So many questions still.

What size encloser?
What vetilation do you have ?.. open screen top? Holes drilled?
Could the snake have injured itself trying to escape from the unit?
How long have you had the snake?
how ofetn do you feed/
WHEN HAS IT LAST DEFICATED?
When did it last eat?
how often do you feed?
What size is the snake?
Age of the snake
What size meals are you giving?

If acquired recently-who did you get the snake from?..a pet shop?
Is it wild caught or captive born?
Are there any pesticides in the basement? Paint?
Do you have any other reptiles in that same room?
Does the lower have of the snake feel squishy?
Is there any discoloration on the underside that you can see through the guy..maybe a bluish or black area?
Does the spine look healthy?
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www.Bluerosy.com

few more questions.
Does the snake have runny stools?
Smelly stools?
Anything else unusual leading up to this point?
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www.Bluerosy.com

ok during the day it could get up to like 80's maybe ( on the hotter days) 90 but lately its been cold. i have a 15 gallon tank which i thought was more than enough because he is probably a foot and a half if that. ok, ill move the pad under the tank and then it will definitely give that 100-50 range with the heat lamp. another thing, i read that lizards need Uvb rays, do snakes do too? if so thats what it is and ill get a new bulb tomorrow. now my room isnt 60 degrees cold, its more like a comfortable 70-75. and it could be that it hasnt been able to digest its food. (oh, just peeked in and i had gave it new water, placed it in the water bowl and its just been swimming around and doing what looks like a drinking motion) but any way. i hope that there was no accident, but also im not sure how that would have happened because no one comes in my room and they dont touch my snake or anything.

ok on to more questions, ill just answer them down the line.

its a 15 gallon
the top is a screen like aluminum mesh type.
it could have injured itself trying to escape i have seen it crawling up the side if the tank
i feed it once a week (minus this week) im thinking its just constipated (if snakes get constipated)
i just looked around the tank and found alittle bit of defecation but nothing out of the usual.
it last ate last week (im afraid to feed it)
the snake is about 5 months maybe
and i feed it fuzzys its last two meals (which is a little bit wider than he is but its not like twice the diameter more like 1.5)

i bought it from a pet shop, captive bred
no pesticides or pain
no reptiles other than it.
YEA!!!!!! it does feel squishy thats what im afraid of
the last time i looked at the under belly i didnt see any black and blue marks, but i can see between the scales. like i can see the pink lines between the scale (i know that not good)
and im not sure what im looking for in the spine

TAKE OFF THE HEAT LAMP!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS PROBABLY THE PROBLEM.

Do not use heat lamps oN a snake or any other heating LIGHT HEAT EMMITER OR VITA LIGHT. Snakes don't need UVB either.

It sevrely dries out a snake and that is what you probably did. Since the snake is only 5 mos old and still feeding on fuzzies it can get dehydrated real easy.Much easier than a full grown aduylt cal king.

Feels the snakes underside for any hard lumps. check around especially near the cloaca. If there are any hard deposits try and palpitate them out of the snakes vent.

1)Turn OFF the light
2) make sure the snake has a humid box (you can get long fiber spahgnum moss or orchid moss).

It is likely that the snake got dehydrated and then drank. this might has coased an obstruction.

I m not 100% sure this is what it is. But from the heat lamp and you general husbandry a guess. It might be to late unless you can remove the obstruction 9if there is one-it could be just rotting inside). Get the humidty box together and hopefully, after it hydrates and deficates, it will feed and digest properly again.

The sooner you get these things fixed or remedies the better chance the snake has of surviving.
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www.Bluerosy.com

it last ate last week (im afraid to feed it)

Why are you afraid to feed it/ the snake knows what is best and you should always feed a growing snake all it can eat. By starving or putting a kingsnake on a diet, it will not grow to be as strong a healthy a captive. you are also asking for a fincky feeder as that is what happenes to snakes that are fed sparingly or on a "schedule"!

FEED it. Feed it all it wants to eat. That is, if she will eat now. if she does your snake will most likely be fine. but from your description the snake will probablt not take any food right now. I hope it does!

Keep feeding larger meals. Your cal king should be way past the fuzzy stage. It is not 5 months old!Cal kings don't hacth in Dec. They hatch around July or even earlier. It is probably closer to 10 months old and way to small from being fed a maintenace diet of pinkies.

Never withhold food from a snake that eats and does not regurge.

If the Cal king eats , then it will be okay. Just hydrate with a humid box and please feed that snake! dfedd it 3x per week if it starts feeding. And don't be afriad to feed it large or what you think is to large. if the snake an't eat it, it will simply give up and you have a rodent to discard. Snakes try and eat food in the wild that are to big all the time. Try larger meals once you get it feeding again. move up quickly in the size of the mouse and frequency of feedings.
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www.Bluerosy.com

what about the squishiness? its not the whole snake just 2/3rds down. should i be worried about that?

Like i said, check for hard deposits (uric acid)and palpitate them out. That is common with dehydrated snakes.

Also with your snake being underfed it is malnutritioned. After a while sevral things can happen to the lower intestine. The snake is weak and it will be hard to bring a weak snake back to health.

best thing that could happen is you offer it food and it eats right now. HAve you fed it yet? It has been 24 hours since this info was posted and i expected an update. Did it refuse food?

It could alo be a lower tract infection.

if the snake is malnourised it won't last long with any treatment. So tim is of the essence. See if it eats. That would be the best sign yet!
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www.Bluerosy.com

i just tried to feed it, and no luck, they are both just laying there in the feeding box...

i just tried to feed it, and no luck, they are both just laying there in the feeding box...

Hydrate it (water and moist hidebox) and just wait it out. Hopefull it is not depleted to the point it won't have nough strength to feed.

And watch those temps. Not to hot. Give it a choice or ranges. put the moist hide on the cool side. Away from the heat pad.

You can pickup some "LONG" FIBER spahgnum moss or ORCHID moss at home depot or Lowes. Don't get regular spahgnum moss. it is not the same thing and has to high a acidity. You snake will not want to stay in it.
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www.Bluerosy.com

But if there were something wrong with the spine, would it be able to feel at the end of its tail? because i just touched the end and it reacted like it normally would.

But if there were something wrong with the spine, would it be able to feel at the end of its tail? because i just touched the end and it reacted like it normally would.

I doidn't say it had a broken spine. I said there could be sevral things worng with it. use your best judgement as we cannot hold and see your snake in person.

Broken sines don't always mean the snake can't feel something on the lower half. It could just be nerve damage. But I doubt that is what it is. Dehydration and malnutrion are mine and others most likely guesses. It is hard to bring a snake back when both of these are active. that is why secondary syptoms like the lame half and the squishness of the lower half. Could be it is just rotting away and it will eventually succumb.

it take a bit of a green thumb and common sense to help the snake recover. Then all you can do is hope for the best. patience is you only choice besides the suggestions given.

Did you get the snake hydrated? Did yo get a moist hide box with spahgnum yet??

You did a number of things wrong and this could only be what is contributing to the snakes problem, or is the cause in itself. Without being there and getting a full picture of the set up, room, temps and other things. I think this is far as we can go with any help.
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www.Bluerosy.com

im waiting for the car to comeback, my grandparents took it. as soon as it pulls up im going to zoom to Lowes and grab some moss and a box (i already called and they have it up front waiting for me)

be careful with the garden center stuff; make sure it hasn't been coated with pesticides or crap like that. If it hasn't, then go for it.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

ok i got the box set up and the snake has been in there for about two hours. as soon as i put it in the box it started digging around and stuff. so far this is the most life ive seen in it for the longest. how long should i keep it in there? and should it be on the warm side or cool side or half and half? i did carve out a hole in the top the size of a quarter so if need be the snake could get out and breathe. also i got the orchid moss because they didnt have the other one (home depot didnt even know what moss was).

how long should i keep it in there?

Don't make the snake do anything. Leave it alone. If it wants to stay in there let it be.

You need to listen to what the snake is telling you and not think so much about what YOU think is best for the snake. The snake will tell you what it wants and if it wants to come out , then fine. It will probably return and stay there 99% of the time. Which should tell you something about what the snake wants and not what you want.
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www.Bluerosy.com

should it be on the warm side or cool side or half and half? i did carve out a hole in the top the size of a quarter so if need be the snake could get out and breathe.

I already said in an above post that it should be on the cool side. Are you reading these posts?

Also the hole should be on the side and not on top, so humidity will collect. That is why it is called a "humid" box. If you put a hole on to it will dry out.

You did moisten the moss? didn't you?
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www.Bluerosy.com

i did moisten the moss. i am reading the posts its just alot is going on at the same time, forgive me if my mind slips here and there.

feeling squishy worries me. I lost a ribbon snake to internal bleeding...shortly (like 24 hours) before he died he felt oddly soft. I'd made a vet appt cause he wasn't looking right but he was dead before he got in. This was 2-3 years ago; I'd found him in my yard a few days before he died and thought I'd keep him.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

yea the squishyness is thats got me worried the most

Where's Zuni? (pint cottage cheese container)

Zuni female 09 25 grams.

And a larger hide:

This is just to illustrate moist sphagnum moss hides. Orchid moss is the best to use as it is very soft. Get it at garden supply stores.
I hope your baby recovers!

Try this:

1. Soak the snake in 1/4 inch water in a plastic tub butted up against the heat pad for about 10 minutes. Like a plastic sandwich container with some holes poked in the side for air.

2. When you are done, wash out the container, put some layers of newspaper in it, including crumpled, and keep the snake in that small container as a cage. For heat, but it right up against the heat pad. Or, place the heat pad down and put about 1/2 inch of the box end over the heat pad.

See if the snake gets better for you. Could be an injury (somehow?) could be poison, could be allergic reaction to aspen (I've seen this twice).
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Mark

the thing is with the aspen, ive been using the same kind since early feb, and its just now gonna have a reaction to it? idk, im just really worried.

It is very simple to remove the aspen from the equation, until which time when you determine the aspen is not the cause. Even I think it may not be the cause, but I have seen an allergic reaction to the dust before. Never with paper. Plus, newspaper conducts heat better and holds heat within the folds. I think better for an ailing animal. You want 90 deg over the heat source, or better put, you want the snake to be able to elevate its body temp to 90 deg while convalescing.
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Mark

I agree with Mark. Is the squishy area bloated or flattened. Do you notice a lump at the vent?

bloated nothing at the vent its all clear.

When was the last time it deficated (just estimate how long ago). Generally any sick reptile is going to be thirsty/dehydrated so a moist hide will help. Constipation can occur if a snake is overfed (which yours is not) or if temps are to high(fluids lost make bowel movement more difficult) or low temps which slow down proper digestion. Either way a snake which is constipated will act the way you say. Like Mark said a bath in water 80 degrees or so SHOULD help him pass it. Hopefully it did not turn into infection.

A useful thing to help with dehydration is Pedialyte. This restores the electolytes balance lost during dehydration. You can get the unflavored kind at Walmart in the baby department. Put the snake in about a quarter inch of warm Pedialyte; not too deep as you don't want to risk drowning him. He will absorb the Pedialyte through his vent. About an hour soak should help.

Some where else you said he has gone into the moss hide. If so, leave him be. Let him decide when he wants to come out on his own.