Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How is the season going???? Anything cool pop out yet????

Another question....

Year after year , our state has been changing our reptile laws.. Roc permits , now possibly 8 species banned.. What kind of future does our favorite constrictor have here?

Everyday I think about this... The years go by so quick, its almost like I can feel it happening... What are your thoughts guys?

Take care

SPENcer

...id say we are screwed...its only a matter of time before boas end up on the ROC list and by then it will be too late to get a permit...

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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 5' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa"Lola Boa"1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18"Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"

Well, as far as breeding, since our winter was longer and colder than usual, it seems that the males bred longer and later than usual.

I think I'm just now getting POS cycles which puts babies in September which is pretty late.

As far as legal stuff, I just hope that every Florida herper put in their public comment. We're the ones that will lose the most the fastest. If we can reverse the rule change I think that'd be a turning point.
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

AFTER WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP THIS, We need to make sure to return here at voting time.

Whatever the outcome, we need to make sure and vote against every representative, local state or federal that voted for any of these bills or rule changes.

Since Florida House and Senate votes have been unanimously against us, that means every incumbent must be voted out.

AGAIN, AFTER YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR COMMENT ON THE RULE CHANGE NOW!
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

Good point.. I am not sure but do you guys know of any laws that have been reversed after passed in the animal industry?

As of yet its not on the ROC . So we definitely have that on our side. I guess its all a matter of time. Maybe we need to form a boa coalition here. Find some central spot and discuss and list possible ways to secure the future of the boa constrictor..

I have gone back to school to pursue a different career in an unrelated field but Im not stopping what I was born to do...

Thanks for the response guys..

Boa coalition?
You got it.
feel free to contact me via email or forum.
I'll meet. That goes for anyone and everyone. Let's do this!
Aaron
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

Our hobby has gone way to long unregulated. If you ask most average people what they are most scared of, the majority will say snake's. Your average american doesn't want someone with a garage full of snake's that can get up to 20ft long. Everyone in this forum is acting like there shouldn't be some sort of control measure's on these animal's. I guarantee NOT ONE PERSON in the forum would want to live next to someone who had a garage full of dog's. First of all there are laws to prevent people from having 50 dog's on someone's property at any given time... Why are we exempt?/ Why do all of you feel that it's o.k. to have such large amount's of reptile's in a residential neighborhood. I believe there need's to be licensing just like with the ownership of venomous snake's. Also a maximum limit of adult's allowed per square foot...and babies. This government of ours is going to do what make's them MONEY!!! We don't live in a democracy we live in a capitalistic society!!!!!! Including our government!!!!! I don't really care if i piss anyone off this is purely my opinion....
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All about the U!!!!

First of all... I love dogs , raised dogs , bred dogs and have nothing against dog breeders or kennels.

Obviously we can keep and house hundreds of snakes in smaller areas. Mainly due to our advancements in husbandry. With proper humidity and heat these animals do great and hopefully reproduce for you..

We aren't disturbing anyone with our collections because half of us do not even show a soul where there at.. The few who get to visit usually have the same respect for these creatures..

I know this country once was great and gave many opportunities to people who stood before us.. Great minds and contributors to this hobby, who led the path for me to be where I am at today..

Sure we can have mandatory licensing but outright complete ban? Thats obsurd!

We can't stop this chain of knowledge and fortune. Too many lives of will be at risk and the future of many species could be uncertain. Captive breeding has reversed the mistakes of humans into a positive outcome...

Mistake after mistake.. When will they stop and realize what they are doing????

Yeah USED to be free... until the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR wins out... I agree with you, thank you for understanding what I am tring to say. I am 32 y.o. and have had boas and balls for 17 years. Yes it would be devistating to have an outright ban I don't think that is the solution. Yes you can house many snakes with Perfect living conditions. That's not the point I'm trying to make. Almost everyone in this forum is acting like nothing should change and I just don't agree. Just trying to put it out there that there are laws preventing me from starting a rat breeding comp from my home cause I live in a residential neighborhood. Look all I'm trying to say is NO ONE in my OPINION shold have a hundred snakes next door to me.. I have 5 morphs myself,,, and that's a handfull to feed and clean every week. Not to mention making sure all the cages are secure!! Anyway thankyou again for the discussion...

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All about the U!!!!

First of all, I AM licensed to keep and sell every reptile in my house. I never said I was for or against legislation. I AM against the Fish and Wildlife rule change. I am also against banning boas and pythons as pets or the import/export interstate transit of these species.

I am a responsible, contributing member of my community. I am a teacher. I always pay my taxes and have never been late. I always pay my mortgage and have never been late. My interest in reptiles fuels the local as well national economy.

I have housed over 60 boa constrictors in my home at one time. Each snake in my house has their own cage.
My neighbors never even knew I had them because they never saw them, smelled then or heard them.
No one ever came to my house to purchase them.
My neighbors were never inconvenienced by them in any way.
There were no escapes.
The neighborhood children were never jeopardized.
I'll repeat they literally never knew they were there.
In fact, the stable, responsible presence of my wife and I on that street brought the value of the houses around us UP if anything. We are personable, pleasant, respectful , responsible and quiet neighbors.

If you could house 60 dogs in a 1400 square foot home on a .25 acre lot with your neighbors never hearing them, seeing them or smelling them or being threatened by them, then by all means, be my guest. Dogs and snakes are not the same.

I’ll take that further and remind you that, as we all know, the instances of dog attacks are far greater. Further still, dogs attacks are usually one someone other than the owner, snake attacks usually on the owner. It’s a risk that every person assumes when keeping animals.

In fact, I’d like to take that even further to say that you cannot be allergic to snakes, they must come in contact with you if they are to potentially harm you. Many of my loved ones are, however, allergic to dogs and cats. If they go into an area that HAS ONCE HAD A DOG-EVEN IF THE DOG IS NOT THERE-it is possible that their throats could swell preventing their breathing and resulting in their death.

50 dogs and 50 snakes are two different things. Let’s compare apples to apples here.

All that being said, I support the rights of American citizens to have dogs and cats and ask that they do the same for me.

I’m getting really tired of this, so I’ll just say what I often find myself saying:
“Just because YOU can’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.”

Please allow those of us that are skilled in animal husbandry and responsible citizens to continue what we have been doing for so long. If you are not up to the challenge, you do not have to (in fact you should NOT) participate.

I have enjoyed many of your posts, Reddog, and you have beautiful animals. I even know that you are partial to albinos with surinam BCC influence. I have always regarded you as an “internet ally.”
I have to say I was surprised to see you taking such a stance.
Aaron
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

Your right, dogs are not snakes. Maybe I could have used a better analogy, with all that being said. Dogs don't get 10, 15, ft. I will have to admit when I was 18 y.o. I purchased an imported baby retic for about $75-$100, from a warehouse distributer, I am strictly prohibited from usin there name!! Now mind u I, had that snake for about 6-8 months from a 32in baby was almost 6 foot! I was admitingly not ready for something like that!!! I had no right buying anything like that but I didn't need a license or anything just walked in and paid the money for an animal that will reach 15 foot and weigh about a hundred pounds with out even blinking!!! I had no right buying something like that. I was told the snake would grow fast and get big but I had no idea. The salesman just wanted his $100 bucks.. the moral of the story is that same scenario has played itself out a hundred times... if people had to pay for a license to own a large constrictor stating they have taken educational classes on the animal or animal's that a person wishes to own. I'm happy just leaving things the way they are now but that's just not going to happen. This is.just my idea of the lesser of two evils. I have wiaited to say anything about this ban since it started I wanted to see how serious the gov was. I just don't want another thing I love to get banned!!! Just trying to come up with a solution to a problem that is not going to go away until some kind of money goes the governments way!!! I think it just boils down to ,money!! Thanks for your response. Just trying to come up with solutions...

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All about the U!!!!

I understand and agree with you.

I'll even say this:

When Florida made their ROC laws stating that, in order to keep a burm (retic, etc.), you had to pass a written test to get a special license, every animal had to be microchipped after a certain size and tagged to their individual owner. That way, if that snake turned up in a parking lot somewhere, authorities could trace the animal back to the owner. The owners are subject to facility inspection. I don't keep ROCs and Fish and I'm subject to inspection.

When these rules came out, I'll admit, I supported them. They came from the reptile community. Many of our industry keaders worked with Fish and Wildlife to create them.

I completely believe many reptile keepers are not capable of keeping burmese pythons. I thought it was sad that we as an industry couldn't hold it together enough to prevent the incidents that had been happening around that time, but understood that something had to be done. There were a few incidents resulting from people handling pythons by themselves. I believe you should not handle a 15 foot retic without another person. If you do, that's a husbandry error. For a few keepers, it turned to to be fatal and some sort of legislation was understandable.

My problem lies with this:

I believe all of these rules were stated that keepers had to be in compliance by July 2008. I felt we had made a fair compromise. However, it wold take a little while for everything to "set in" and take effect.

Unfortunately, within 6 months, national legislation was being considered for an all out ban. Now, less than two years later, the FL House and Senate have ramrodded new legislation banning the ownership of ROCs as pets.

What I mean is that we compromised and our plan was never allowed a chance to work. I feel that, instead of viewing our compromise as Herpers being receptive to other view points and to change, it was viewed as weakness. I feel betrayed about this. They asked, we answered and they did what they wanted anyway. The have shown me that, if we compromise, they'll take it further than we agree. Give them and inch and they'll want a mile. Now I find myself thinking like the NRA: no compromise.

We already HAVE the licensing laws you describe in effect, Let's just give them a chance to work. Enforce them better if you want. Every year, I tell FL Fish and Wildlife what I have, how many of them there are and where I have them on my renewal application. I am proud to participate. I comply with the rules and regulations set out by Florida. In my opinion, up to this point, FL Fish and Wildlife seems pretty reasonable.

Anyway, sorry for the length of this post. I just want to know that, if we agree upon a solution, our agreement will be honored. I want the decisions and opinions of our industry leaders honored. I remember that many people spent at least MONTHS if not years of their free time meeting with FFW to come up with these rules changes and they were completely disregarded 6 months later.

Accreditation by USARK?
I'm open to that. USARK is made up of reptile keepers and know what it means to house a burmese python. They are US.
An all out ban of all interstate commerce created by people that mostly have never owned reptiles?
Sounds to me like someone's not listening again.
See what I mean?
Thanks for your response.
Aaron
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

...when did you become a card carrying member of HSUS?...seriously what crawled up your bungus and died?...boas do NOT need regulation...

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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 5' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa"Lola Boa"1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18"Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"

Licensing, and with that licensing classes to be taken on husbandry and so forth. There are to many irresponsible owner's out there and I don't want my hobby destroyed!!!!!!!Thank's for not disappointing me... I knew there would be some sort of smart a** in the group. There's alway's someone so ready to be a tough guy on a computer. That's my OPINION.... The government is not going to back down. There is going to at least be some sort of comprimise, or I fear the government will do what they want!!!! Like they alway's do!!!!
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All about the U!!!!

Who is acting tough on the forum here? I think a few of us have made some valid points on how WE ALL WANT COMPROMISE with state and local law. Restriction and bannning of ownership is NOT and I repeat NOT compromise...

Everyone needs to start somewhere. From a simple glass tank with a garter snake to an 8 foot Boaphile cage housing a big bertha...

Restriction wont allow the next fellow to do this or make an attempt at it.. Its not just your hobby DOG. Its all of ours. Many of us who depend on them to provide food,shelter and a piece of sanity...

Join us or not, WE ARE HERE TO STAY... Not only for us Florida keepers but for the rest of my KINGSNAKE buddies on this forum. Its a serious matter and COMPROMISING on their turf seems to go nowhere for us...

Thanks again for the replies and anyone who read this and would like to rally together something. Keep us in mind...

...comparing boas too burms and retics is just stupid (almost as bad as comparing dogs to snakes lol)
...Ive read every single post youve done here (all 7 of em)and every single one is a negative rant that makes you sound like a real jerk honestly...you call me a "internet tough guy" because I stood up to your jerkish ramblings while a few posts down you were picking on a poor lady who was losing her beloved pet...I dont know if your just having a bad week or if your a just a jerk...just for the record I dont have a "garage full of a hundred snakes",just 1.2 boas that I breed occasionally...sounds like youre just mad that they wouldnt let you have your rat breeding business (and yes that does suck)but coming in here and acting like a tool isnt going to help you any...
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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 5' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa"Lola Boa"1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18"Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"