Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So here's the deal. There's this great looking couple of Kingsville Red Bullsnakes that will make a very proud owner within just a few days from now. With these bright red colors and pinched saddles these may very well be the most extreme Red Bulls I've ever seen (in real life, that is).

Yet somehow there's also something strangely familiar about their appearance. In fact, the more I look at them, the more they remind me of Cape Gophersnakes, particularly Pituophis vertebralis bimaris.

Should I be worried?

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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Nice looking snake BUT, if that is a Kingsville, looks like someone has been tinkering around with the line. Appears to have uniformly dark if not black saddles. Seems out of character. Anyrate, here's a pic of my not-so-big-red (Ginter line) Kingsville when he was about 19 inches long.

Yep, that's how I picture them. Thanx.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Worried? If you need to make sure they're pure, I'd say yeah. If you need a pair of incredible looking pits, emphatically no

Would be nice to know just what they are. If you find out please let us know.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Well, the thing is, they're not cheap. I need to be sure I get what I pay for. Sure, they look great, hybrid or not. I don't know about the American market, but in Europe hybrids are crap.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Hi Herman,

They don't look like a typical kingsville,especially when compared to Ginters line posted prev.

Maybe you should also inc the possibilty of affinis (?) along with the vertebralis thinking.

The first third of its body looks like a bull, after that it looks nothing like any bulls I've seen. I saw 2 wild bulls in Wichita county, TX this last year. Both looked just like my girl, very distinct and pronounced side and dorsal saddles.

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- Matt

1.0 Black Milk '04
1.0 Andean Milk '06
0.1 Eastern King '97
0.1 Bullsnake '09

Hi Al,

That scenario may explain some of the anomalities, especially when considering a gorgeous looking specimen like that, but certainly not all. It would not explain the difference between dorsal vs. lateral coloration, or the narrow shaped, highly contrasting blotches, or the 'gopherish' head. But then again, if these truly are a mix, then why assume only two kinds of snake to be involved? I'm still considering bimaris as the most plausible scenario though.

Any updates on the Pituophis d. deppei?

Best regards, Herman.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Well, me I see deserticola in them.

Well, today I went to this guy's home and got to see and handle them in person. And boy, was I ever wrong! These are pure Bullsnakes, as good as it get, no doubt whatsoever. Nothing particularly 'gopherish' about them. Pictures didn't do them any justice, they're actually much redder than that.

And now they're mine.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.