Reptile & Amphibian Forums

MILWAUKEE - A distressed Terry Cullen spoke to TODAYS TMJ4 reporter Shelley Walcott this morning... saying recent media coverage of reptiles seized from buildings he owns has ruined his life.

Cullen also spoke to a reporter at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, complaining that Milwaukee Police were keeping the animals in unheated city garages... something he called utterly cruel.

But Milwaukee Police say that is absolutely not true, and that the animals were in absolutely horrible condition when they were found.

Hundreds of reptiles ranging from anacondas to alligators were seized from three properties linked to Cullen in the last week.

Police and others inside the buildings described filthy conditions: Floors littered with dead rats and mice, and reptiles in small containers filled with waste.

TODAY'S TMJ4 reporter Charles Benson got a look at some of the rescued animals that were taken to the Racine Zoo.

Zoo President Jay Christie says they are much better off in the zoo's care. The Milwaukee County Zoo and Milwaukee Area Domestic Animal Control Commission are also caring for some of the animals.

Terry Cullen says he is in Milwaukee. But police say they do not know where he is but are anxious to talk to him.

Cullen says he's anxious to tell his story too, but when he does it will be on his terms.... and his time.
www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/94304609.html

I have heard about Terry for years but don't actually know him.
Wes has posted another article below.
The Milwaukee Police are not allowing any reporters to see or photograph the animals. All we have is their word that they, the animals, were in awful shape and now miraculously 1 week later thay are doing better.
That is CRAP!!!!
Anyone who knows anything about crocs knows the stress of moving them even to a nicer habitat is going to make the crocs take a turn for the worse.
Terry has to have his lawyer get a court order for someone to video these animals. The first articles said the animals were healthy but the cages were filthy. Now 1 week later the animals are in terrible shape.
That is CRAP!!!
They are covering their butts in case stuff starts dying.
I want to see video of the animals. If their in bad shape fine, if not we need to know.
As a reptile community we should not be laying down about this.
I'm happy to drive up from TX to shoot video.
If anyone knows Terry urge him to get his lawyer in action.
People don't get Chinese Alligators and Black Caiman to not take care of them.
The supposed reptile expert from the Racine zoo took 3 crocs one of which he has still failed to identify?????
You only have 23 choices make a decision.
I am sick over this.
Why was the warrant for endangered animals when the charges were for sexual assualt????
I called the Milwaukee Animal Control and left a message on how to care for crocodilians. I was polite but adamnent that these were exotic animals and while mostly bullet proof you still have to follow a few basic guidelines. I can't worry about offending people this is to important.
It is time as a community we start fighting back. D.C.

...it way past time to fight back...this has AR BS written all over it...but we are just expected to turn the other cheek and not put up a fight...if we were as relentless as these AR people then maybe we might get somewhere...
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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 5' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa"Lola Boa"1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18"Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"

I see Terry every year at Daytona, but no more than that. My concern was the "sexual assault" call that got the police involved. Yep, sounds like an AR case.

The main problem we face is that NO longer can we keep Crocs in cattle tanks, giant 15' plus snakes in 6-8' cages etc. Basically we look like hoarders and in fact are hoarders when we do these things. Terry is a very knowledgeable guy BUT I saw pics of the Osteoleamis and its nose is turned up deformed due to improper lighting, heat, and diet. When we do these things and we all did including me back 30 years ago no one looked and no one cared. That is NOT the case today. In all fairness herps deserve to be given adequate caging etc. My facility is open to anyone, anytime to inspect. If anything I have built the cages as an overkill and are bigger than actually needed in most cases. Also the days of spending thousands of dollars on an animal and a hundred dollars for the cage are over. We must build an adequate infrastructure BEFORE aquisition of the herps themselves. I'm very sorry this happened and Terry has had that facility since the 70's that I know of. The herps would be much better off in his hands than the city employees BUT WE MUST STOP HOARDING HERPS UNLESS THE CAGES ARE ADEQUATE or the Industry is doomed. I believe we have to evolve with the times in order to survive or we will become the Tyrannosaurus plodding into extinction...Thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I repeat, I feel sorry for Terry...But this is not about Terry.
This is about the animals. This is way above animal controls paygrade. Any Animal Control. You, of all people Tom should recognize these are not animals to be easily replaced.
In my mind the people, the institutions that have taken in these animals have assumed a great responsibility. People will disagree, they will say a life is a life each one as precious as the next. I'm sorry that is just not true. These are important animals. And if something happens to them it will be a tragedy.
How do you know he raised that Osteolamus from a baby, he may have obtained it recently and that was a preexisting condition.
For all I know Terry may be a seriel rapist. I still don't want something to happen to the crocs.
I called the reporter and had a long chat. He agreed that all this "undisclosed locations," and no videoing of the animals is wrong. I just know that on any given day someone could stop at my house and see dirty cages and apparently take my animals.
I'll put the way my animals look up against anyones.
But once they are confiscated you have no voice.
I would hope someone would step up and say let's see video of the animals, lt's get some weights.
Let me tell you Tom if you think big cages will change public perception you're crazy. The public hears that someone has 60 adult pairs of monitors or whatever. I don't care if each pair has a 1 acre enclosure. The guy sitting in his apartment with his Golden Retreiver is going to think hoarder.
And no one will ever see pics of the facility and no one will speak up for you because they don't want to draw attention to themselves. D.C.

YOU ARE MISTAKEN IF YOU THINK I SAID ANYTHING DETRIMENTAL ABOUT TERRY. Before you jump the gun read my post below this one on another thread when this happened. Nevertheless my statements are TRUE regarding caging etc. It is hard if not impossible to be attacked from an animal cruelty standpoint if certain protocals are followed. I feel very bad for Terry and I've said so numerous times BUT the fact is my other statements are TRUE. If the croc had been in a pond in Fl. at the other facility it wouldn't matter if the nose is deformed or not but in a cattle tank inside a warehouse it becomes a HUGE PROBLEM. I know likely MORE than any of you what it's like to be singled out for persecution and I LEARNED A LOT. One is to NOT let yourself EVER be in a position where things may be different than they appear. APPEARANCES ARE ABOUT 95% IMPORTANT OVERALL. I stand by my statement...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Also I have and will speak out about anyone in defense of this Industry and any animals being mistreated but take it from someone who knows JUSTICE COMES AT A HIGH PRICE IN U.S. DOLLARS. THAT'S CORRECT YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PURCHASE JUSTICE.....I TOOK A SMALL FEDERAL CASE TO THE 11TH COURT OF APPEALS AND WON BUT LOST OVER $150,000 IN THE PROCESS...I spent all that money on just plain personal beliefs that matter NOT A WHIT TO ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY....Danny I have been there and done that believe me. IF YOU WIN YOU STILL LOSE...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Don't know Terry. Know he has done some good things.

Started to post earlier. Thought my input would be mistaken as criticism of Terry.

There are varying shades of gray between black and white. Things just aren't so cut and dried.

We need to control the message. We need to clean up our act, so as there is nothing sensational for the AR people to bomb us with.

A few unfortunate situations gets all the press. Makes everyone look bad.

On an individual basis, each and every one of us needs to clean house. Just that one little "oh [bleep]" can take away so many "Atta Boy's". Can take 100 "Atta boy's" to make up for just one of the other kind.

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

There was leak by the (MPD)milwaukee police department that the complaint against terry cullen for the allegded rape/sexual assult name is jenni or jennifer apparently from illnoise if this person ever surfaces she should be exculeded from any and all wildlife/conservation communities globally indefinatel anonymus

Before you go naming alleged sexual assault victims on the internet which is against the policy of most media outlets and probably only not against the law due to the first amendment, why don't you wait and see if the allegations are true before you go punishing the victim ( or alleged victim.).
Perhaps you would think differently about you are doing if you or your wife or your mother or daughter had been victimized in such a way and someone did what you just did.
I have worked directly with a handful of animal activists at a humane society/animal control facility I once worked at. What you just did reminds me of the type of tactics that they do. You are in my mind at this point no different than they are.
In fact if you run any type of herp related business please let us know what it is because quite honestly if I am burning in hell and you are selling ice water I don't want to buy it from you.

This is not a forum for sexual assualt(rape).
If someone is guilty of rape I don't care if they saved every croc on the planet. They need to go to jail. I have to much respect for wife, my mother, and my sisters to think otherwise.
IF they were false allegations that is another story.
For now and for this forum i suggest we stick to caring about the animals.D.C.

I agree and don't for once think there is any serious crime related to any of this. I'LL BET SOME AR PLANT BEGAN WORKING THERE AND CREATED A SEARCH WARRENT SITUATION BECAUSE OF THE ANIMALS...Mark my words....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Coincidence that this happens just as the unholy marriage of the DNR and HSUS is announced? Taking down someone like Terry is excactly what their agenda is about. Plus the head of MADDAC gets what he threatend when he said he'd get Cullen. Charges are expected to be trumped up or filed if you like next week. A mysterious Jenny from Illinois according to the MPD "leak" who "may" have been involved with animals. Let's have a real person so our animal groups know who to watch for

"Coincidence that this happens just as the unholy marriage of the DNR and HSUS is announced?"

Where is this? Is this Wisconsin DNR?

"Plus the head of MADDAC gets what he threatend when he said he'd get Cullen."

What is MADDAC? Who is this person?

Thanks,
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>What is MADDAC? Who is this person?
>>

Milwaukee Area Domestic Animal Control Commission - should be MADACC

That is the animal control facility in Milwaukee
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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"BUT I saw pics of the Osteoleamis and its nose is turned up deformed due to improper lighting, heat, and diet. When we do these things and we all did including me back 30 years ago no one looked and no one cared. That is NOT the case today."

I am not trying to argue with you Tom, and certainly agree with the jist of what you are saying, but at the same time, do we know that animals specific history? Was it Terry's from the time it was a youngster? Even if it was, if his husbandry improved over the years, whats to say it wasn't being well kept except for the word of someone who probably has no idea how to keep reptiles in general.

The reason I bring this up is because god help us if they ever bust me up for some reason, or many of the folks out there who have taken in unwanted herps with a rough past! Under the harsh, dispassionate and ignorant eye of the media they could really make us look bad if they decided to omit the history of the animals in our hands.

Being involved with rescue, I personally keep a number of "defunct" critters who have a lot of life left despite their pasts, current appearances & handicaps. From 3 legged, to stub tailed, nubby, one winged, one eyed, and just generally dinked up, some with resolved MBD issues - they are critters that people have passed off onto me or friends, who over the years came to live with me. Many do outreach. They are getting great care here, but things like turned out snouts, slew-shells, pyramiding, serious under bites and twisted backs don't ever really go away all the way. Surely these creatures deserve to live, despite their imperfections. I couldn't imagine it reflecting on the keeper for keeping such critters instead of "perfect" specimens...and I wonder if that's the case with Terry?

I didn't know him personally, and I could be dead wrong. I sure wish they had taken photos of his setups and animals when they were taken. It seems to me that would be of significant legal importance to document the mistreatment of the animals in question. (I recall on all the "animal cops" shows I have seen that they make sure to take lots of photographs to document the incident and the mistreatment of the animals) It is rather suspicious to me that they did not this, and that makes me question what exactly went on here.

"In all fairness herps deserve to be given adequate caging etc."

They do, but what constitutes adequate caging? I know most people don't keep crocs well, or many lizards, but herps have such diverse needs and requirements, a big sunny cage would rock for one herp, well might kill another. I know many folks use rack systems for snakes & geckos, and the AR lot would almost certainly point and say that's a vile practice. The snakes & geckos in them seem to be doing just fine.

Very good points. That's why WE need to control the message.
Snakes in particular, and other reptiles to some extent, tend to conjure up wives' tales, folklore, legends, myth, mystery, and other untruths, exaggeration of truth, and the dark side -- with the Public.

The Public is simply primed and ripe to hear all the titillating details regarding anything "scary" or "perverse" associated with snakes. Someone wrote that we are the perverts...I say the Public is the ones that are perverts -- wanting to hear all the gory details, just like the motorist passing a horrible roadside crash trying to get a better look. The fascination of the misunderstood.

The public is susceptible to these sensational tabloid tales. That is why WE need to control the message. So long as the authorities and the AR folks are holding all the evidence, they can pretty much say or do what they want. By the time the true facts come out, it's far too late.

Just the simple fact that WE have "collections" opens us up to all sorts of misunderstanding, ignorance, and abuse by those that choose to do so. We are vulnerable simply by what we do.

WE must enlighten. That is one of the primary justifications for our very existence. WE oppose ignorance. Ignorance is the enemy of snakes and ignorance is the enemy of those that care for and care about snakes.

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John you are correct and this is what I'm trying to convey. First I have a private Reptile Farm that is open for inspection by anyone, anytime. If I tried to secretly do it there would always be rumors etc. In a lg city this could be a giant problem if no one knew before an incident such as this happens. Bill Brandt has Industrial Buildings totaling likely 50,000 sq feet but EVERYONE KNOWS. In fact he's the president of the Newberry, Fl Chamber of Commerce. I'm not sure if Milwaukee has any laws regarding the keeping of herps but Terry has had those buildings since the 70's and would have been grandfathered in anyway. Again ALL of us have got to deliver a positive message [the truth in fact] to the public at large. We MUST control the contents NOT the AR MORONS. Again I feel bad for Terry but he needs to attack back right now. Rest assured he will NOT be alone on this one as there are many of us who will help but time is of utmost importance...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

>> I'm not sure if Milwaukee has any laws regarding the keeping of herps but Terry has had those buildings since the 70's and would have been grandfathered in anyway.
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>>Tom Crutchfield
>>www.tomcrutchfield.com

The City of Milwaukee has laws against carnivorous lizards and crocodilians as well as "dangerous" snakes, the tip off is dangerous is determined at time of visit. Which means any snake could be considered dangerous.

As far as I have been able to determine, they do not offer permits. I have inquired.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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I'm saying that we MUST ALWAYS PROVIDE ADEQUATE BEYOND REPROACH HOUSING PERIOD. If that includes snakes and certain lizards in plastic tubs it's NOT a problem as long as it's defensable but any croc longer than 24" in a cattle tank is a PROBLEM both for the croc and the public and is NOT defensable. I'm well aware that it could be a rescue, etc. The problem is perception and opens both Terry and the Industry to attack. I'll be the first to say [I DID ON THE LOWER THREAD] that he is NOT a novice herper. None of that matters nor does the life work matter when a situation like this arises. Also if asked I will attest and defend his ability and judgement but it's too little to late after the fact. What worries me are the poor herps taken. Undoubtably the folks that have them have little skill in their maintenance and their survival is doubtful. If I were Terry I would ALREADY BE GOING PUBLIC WITH THESE IDIOTS AND DEFENDING MY FACILITIES AND BRINGING IN OTHER EXPERTS. I would have done that on day 1 and been there and tried to stop the removal even if it meant agreeing to temperarily sending them to his colleagues. In today's current mad dog AR FEEDING FRENZY I WOULDN'T UNDER ANY CONDITIONS HAVE ANYTHING KEPT UNDER ANYTHING OTHER THAN EXCELLENT CAGING WHICH LIKELY MOST WERE KEPT IN ANYWAY. My comment was only based on FILM provided and you could clearly see numerous cattle tanks and I saw clearly the Dwarf Croc. This is NOT defensable and it seems the truth bothers some but IT NEGATIVELY AFFECTS EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM AND EVERYONE WITH HERPS. All of us must, if we wish to survive, adapt and adhere to just plain COMMON SENSE...THANKS
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I imagine Terry is still shell-shocked by the whole affair. Terry and I have a mutual friend who is a well respected Reptile veterinarian, well versed in crocs, who could help him out. I assume he has already been contacted. Tom, I believe you know who I mean.

I do and that's my point. He needs to GET OVER IT AND MOUNT AN ATTACK. THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE...That's a quote from a famous Notre Dame coach named KNUTE ROCKNE....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Actually I believe I quoted Vince Lombardi and not Knute Rockne..MY BAD
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I agree that Terry should have come forward immediately. For his sake and more importantly the sake of the animals. Noone knows those animal better than Terry. If I knew absolutely my animals were going and there was nothing I could do about it. I would be the one catching them up and putting them in the crates. I don't need catch poles breaking my crocs teeth.
I also agree with Raven and this was my point that we don't know the hx of the dwarf.
The crappiest looking animals in my collection are animals I received from other people. I am not a rescue but since I make my living doing educational reptile shows I feel obligated to take in unwanted animals. Raven is right some never fully recover.
I loved Tom's story about the salt that "exploded" when put into a sunny larger enclosure. But it does'nt always have that happy ending.
I agree bigger cages are better. I also admit when I'm on the road I use a rack system for the small guys.
And while perception is important I don't like AR folks trying to dictate the way I keep my animals.
Reptiles are secretive they don't just sprawl out like your dog.
In my traveling display I have 4 giant species of snakes(all over 13 feet). I have 4 venemous snakes. A big A. snap a small crocodilian and a huge monitor.
I get a few people asking about cage size even though it is written that none of these animals are permenantly housed there.
I say the only one I would like to have more room is the monitor.
D.C.

Danny I understand all those things and more but I stand by my statements. On this I believe it 100% is correct....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I don't think you can be a remotely intelligent animal keeper without having had this debate rage in your head. I live on a bluff below me is a huge beautiful creek complete with fish,turtles,nutria, and even a few beaver. I can sit on my back deck visualizing my crocs swimming lazily up and down the creek.
Until winter when they would all freeze to death. But what if that creek were in Africa, S. America or Asia. Well then they would just have to worry about Nile monitors, jaguars, coati mundis etc...
The fact is less than 1% of the eggs a croc lays will ever reach adulthood. I tell myself I'm keeping that 99%. I tell myself a diverse unending diet, an environment free of predators, and the possibilty of mating can't be that bad of life.
I hope. I think that most people want the best for their animals and act accordingly.
You don't always know. My biggest A. Snap (Spartacus) I tell him when this is all over(traveling doing shows) I'll let you go in the deepest darkest swamp I can find. But I don't know if I will.
Because even though I would be no longer responsible for him I would worry that some hillbilly would find him and make turtle soup. I don't know if I could live with that worry. And I wonder that after a certain length of time would'nt he be better off staying in captivity. I don't know. D.C.

Danny I think your missing my point comepletely as it's NOT about what the animal thinks or how happy it is [I think most are content and happy] it's about public perception!!!! That is our problem and will be perhaps our downfall if BIG STORIES KEEP HAPPENING....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Hey Tom,
I agree with your post but I'm not sure that most herpers fit the definition of "animal hoarder. By definition:
Animal hoarding involves keeping higher than usual numbers of animals as pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability. Compulsive hoarding can be characterized as a symptom of mental disorder rather than deliberate cruelty towards animals. Hoarders are deeply attached to their pets and find it extremely difficult to let the pets go. They typically cannot comprehend that they are harming their pets by failing to provide them with proper care. Hoarders tend to believe that they provide the right amount of care for their pets.
This reminds me of little old ladies that take care of their 100 cats rather than themselves. Not any herper who has a extensive collection.
I know what you meant by your post, just thought I'd share the definition.
I totally agree with the increased caging standards in todays world. Gone are the days of substandard cages. I seriously doubt there would have been any issue with Terry's animals if they were all in a state of the art, climate controlled facility.
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old
Help me find this snake!

"Compulsive hoarding can be characterized as a symptom of mental disorder rather than deliberate cruelty towards animals. Hoarders are deeply attached to their pets and find it extremely difficult to let the pets go. They typically cannot comprehend that they are harming their pets by failing to provide them with proper care. Hoarders tend to believe that they provide the right amount of care for their pets."

There are those among the "Rescue" community that fit that definition. The same ones that turn others in, assist and participate in confiscations, swap and maintain controlled and endangered confiscated animals with impunity while cloaking themselves in the "animal rescue/animal welfare" banner for legitimacy. They earn their credentials and legitimacy through association with authority, not in deed. Kinda like the snitch that gets to stay out on the street and continue the criminal activity for being CI's. Not much different. Setting people up is good for job security all around.

There is no difference between them and the AR crowd, who they frequently work with. The AR crowd says the end justifies the means. The rescue folks judge others as cruel and inhumane, confiscate their animals, and provide no better or sometimes worse care. The AR crowd justifies their mission with the -- "We know what's best for the animals. You do not. You are not qualified. You should not be allowed to participate. Leave it to the Authorities. The animals belong in the wild." The Rescue folks pretty much say the same thing -- "You are not qualified to keep the animals in your possession. You are cruel and inhumane. We must take your animals for their own good. We know what is best. You do not." The reality is, the animals are often placed in a worse situation, warehoused in stasis until death.

In both cases it's a case of individuals judging others as not as good as themselves...Self-indulgent egocentric judgmental controlling personalities run-a-muck...Playing God.

Actually, a complete detour/bypass of the American Justice System. Well, of course. After all, they are better than us. Right?

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John you hit the nail on the head as well....HOPE THOSE BOAS GO BTW....You don't see them like that much these days...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

What, these?

I hope so too, Tom.

"You don't see them like that much these days..."

And you'll see even fewer, if the AR clowns have their way!

Everyone needs to remember that!

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

WOW John, if you get babies from those they will be spectacular. I quit breeding Boas several years ago but have to admit those make me want to get back into them again...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

You just described a friend of mine that runs a rescue to a 'T".
I MEAN A "T"!!!
He has way more than he needs but when others get busted he is right there wanting more. He is a friend so the most I say to him is, "maybe the guy did'nt have permits but the animals look well cared for."
But in his mind the animals are automatically better off with him. Like having a piece of paper is going to automatically make someone a better keeper. D.C.

Danny I know many out there like that both rescues and private people and this is my point. The realization of the truth is NOT understood and most think they're doing the best thing for their charges. We have no way to know if this is factual with Terry but I hope not for his and our sake because this is only the beginning. I wish he would step forward and mount a counter attack as he would not be alone. This needs to be nipped in the bud because of the crocs and supposed giant snakes. The longer it goes without a counter offensive [going public big time] the worse it will be. Soon I'm afraid it will make national news and once the ball is rolling it gains momentum. Make sure no good deed goes unpunished and I believe this to be the case in this incident....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I've encountered a couple of 'rescuers' who have gotten WAY in over their heads and never say 'no' to anyone, and so animals just pretty much go there to be essentially neglected and die.

This in spite of losing entire colonies of turtles to viruses because of lack of quarantine procedures, mite infestations in snakes due to the same, and general horror of filth due to whatever. The most frequent excuse is lack of help but really it seemed like something else to me.

In contrast I know other rescuers who are extremely energetic about finding new homes, spend every spare dollar on vet care and have immaculate (and I mean *immaculate*, even by non-pet owner standards) households...

I'm in complete agreement with you. When are you coming to visit again, Kachunga? Still remember the Brooks King. A good friend caught a pair of HEALTHY ones and the female is likely gravid. I know exact locale so we'll go herpin when you come...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I 100% agree with this statement. When you keep crocs you owe it to both the animal and society to ensure you have large presentable enclosures that never lend themselves to doubt in regard to the animals welfare.

In our situation we have a steady stream of visitors to our facility from all walks of life. It has always pleased me when we hear(often) how large the enclosures are and how natural. It puts a good face on animal keeping.Regardless of any thing else we do it is a responsibility we feel should be out front. I never understand why people purchase large species and then:

1. Don't have the space for the adult form

2. Don't have the land/climate/finances to sustain the adult animals.

The occasional dirty enclosure is often unavoidable. If it happens often enough that you don't want people coming over you either have to many animals or not enough energy. Either of which mitigates against crocodilian keeping.

I know so many reptile keepers that acquire far to many animals and stash them here or there long term. Like Tom said, they look like hoarders or at least are not easily distinguised from the same.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

I suspect a lawsuit will arise from this.

I don't think a first name (alias?) is goinmg to involve anyone, but I agree with Tom that this would be an easy setup to get into Terry's place.

WTAQ (Green Bay, Wisconsin) 22 May 10 Charges Expected for 2 Behind Milwaukee Reptile House
Milwaukee, Wis.: Prosecutors say they expect to file charges next week against 2 people responsible for hundreds of reptiles found living in a Milwaukee house. The targets weren't name, but investigators have reportedly been focused on Terry Cullen and Jane Flint.
Cullen has kept reptiles for years and consulted with several agencies. Flint is his girlfriend and she was arrested last week when police found the reptiles living in squalid conditions in a house in the 3400 block of South 17th Street.
In that house more than 250 animals, ranging from boa constrictors and anacondas to alligators and crocodiles were discovered. The floor was reportedly covered with hundreds of mice and rats. Many of the animals were kept in enclosures so small they couldn't turn around. Waste was covered almost everything, according to witnesses.
Charges Expected for 2 Behind Milwaukee Reptile House

Milwaukee Police Department leaked the name of the person who started this against Terry. The source inside Milwaukee Police Department wasn't able to give her complete name but it she is from a western suburb of Chicago and her name is spelled similar to ressling.

If anyonw knows why she did this please let Terry and the Animal community know.

This guy may be innocent of what he is accused of if he infact is the person the warrant was mentioning. If this is this is a case of false accusation then they need to throw the book at this woman.
However if the opposite turns out to be true then shame on all of you looking to out this person before all the facts are in.
In the end if there is some merit to these charges it will be the reptile community that will look bad for outing her name. This is no different than the tactics used in the past by such exemplary people like the Kennedy's and there ought to be a special place in hell for the whole bunch of you.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I read the below thread regarding Terry Cullen, and while nobody within that thread mentioned taking such action, it has been seen in various capacities facebook, and other sources, where "individuals" are supposedly "raising money" for Terry Cullen's legal defense.

It is important to note for the safety of your own wallets, that Terry Cullen is ONLY working with Robbie Keszey at this time in regards to defense in his situation. While there is still very much a cloud of dust surrounding this incident and much to still be sorted out...before you make the jump to throw money towards a legal defense for Terry, please be aware that ONLY Robbie Keszey has been authorized by Terry for any type of initiative like this and that is IF and ONLY IF, necessary. If anyone else you find, is supposedly raising money, please do yourself a favor and do not donate.

If and when such a time may occur, Robbie Keszey will make it publicly known to the herp community, at which time, if you wish to assist and donate money, you're welcomed to do so.

Another important note: I do NOT hold a particular opinion on the situation at this time. I'm aware of some various information, that was only partially covered in news media, and beyond that...I will await full detail from police reports, etc. before making a personal opinion or judgement.

With that being said...at this time, it appears as if the police are still gathering further information. If it is taking them this long, I would have to say that there really isn't much to the initial allegations.

Again, before you make any true judgements or attempts to help...please be aware of the full details, at least as much as possible.

Best regards to all,

Chris

"With that being said...at this time, it appears as if the police are still gathering further information. If it is taking them this long, I would have to say that there really isn't much to the initial allegations."

I'd have to agree. Something I don't understand is why the search warrant for "Sexual Assault" charges? As I understand it, they haven't even issued an arrest warrant for anything.

Sounds like they are in damage control mode, to find something that will stick, in order to legitimize their actions. I'll bet it all gets thrown out in court.

As I've stated before, should these charges turn out to be baseless and unfounded, I would pursue legal action against those that initiated and participated in the unwarranted home invasion and with the illegal search and seizure of private property.

In the event those charges are recognized as baseless and unfounded, I'm up for contributing to any legal proceeding that pursues an official oppression, official misconduct, and unlawful prosecution charges in order to hold those responsible accountable.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer