Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this topic is germane to any snake forum but since I hangout here...

Apsen gets so funky, dusty, and messy, as well as expensive to replace so I'm gonna try newspaper and see it the works out. Any thoughts?
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I reckon there's pro's and cons to both.

Here's something that I'm trying out this year: Starting all may snakes on aspen. Once the aspen runs out (or gets funky), switching over to newspaper.

Next year I plan to repeat the sequence - or may do something like rotate Care Fresh into the mix and have three different substrates in one year.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks, makes sense.

btw, great pic of an awesome Black. Seems to be a very difficult snake to capture well in photos. Most times they come out looking rather dull and messy looking, when in person they are really shiny and clean.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I was under the imperession that the reason we used aspen bedding was for these few good reasons. 1st, and by far the most importiant reason: Comfort of the captive snake, to provide a dark retreat under three inch deep bedding gives a real feeling of security, and I would consider it a key fundamental to any wild cought specimen's enclosure. 2nd reason: It is nearley dust free in comparrison to yellow pine shavings or saw dust, and 3rd reason is it absorbs bad smells better than everything, especially newspaper. The only downside to aspen is it is very messy but so is a snake and its a lot easier to remove a pile of feces in a handfull of bedding than removing hide boxes to get at underlayment newspaper disturbing any snakes in the prosess, Like a gravid female for instance...and it looks nice when kept clean and fresh, but if your one of those folks that keep your snakes in those concentration camp, prison racks systems then your snakes are going to crawl around in their feces no matter which product you choose as bedding. my advise is for display setups not a commercial breeder sinario.

All good points but...

1. Only a few of my smaller animals seem to burrow in it but for them it is probably a benefit. Based on my observations of their behavior, I really don't think the larger ones care. They also wind up on things and in places and positions that indicate they don't seem to care about having a soft surface, cushy surface.

2. The apsen itself might not have dust but my snake room is also a living space and is quite small so there tends to be a "dander" which sometimes gives me a very slight reaction. It is likely from mold or fecal residue in less than fresh bedding, fresh is a relative term here as after the first defecation it is one its way to funky. I fairly fastidious about spot cleaning but it's never perfect and unless you change bedding on a frequent and rigd schedule...

3. Just now trying it but my thoughts are that it will be very simple to swap out the paper, wipe the floor and put it back together all clean and dandy. That operation is a lot more involved and messy with aspen. I am definetly concerned though about them becoming more exposed to fresh feces.

This guy spent the night and most of the morning like this...

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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I have rasied cribos, eastern coachwhips and scarlet kings and b.pines and they all seem to be bigtime burrowers and like the aspen, but if your snakes don't get underneith it maybe it was not deep enough, I use it generously at three inch deep, I'm guessin any less it not a sufficent cover. ...I did use newspaper for twenty years before aspen was available.

Good point. I've thought that maybe it's just on deep enough for them but to give them all that much depth would get really pricey if I want to keep it fresh and changed regularly.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

If you're doing full changes then yeah it would be a royal pain. The benefit in my eyes is that you don't need to change it for long periods. Spot cleaning is fine unless you have a big water spill or excessive mess.
Sometimes people have issues with changing to fresh too often, then for sure you'll have more dust & the stronger scent. If you like to change it up often then what you're doing is probably what will work best for you.

I don't know if it's different down there but up here a few guys I know go to the newspaper offices and pay almost nothing for the roll ends. It's nice because it's fresh newsprint with no ink on it & the rolls are 2' wide.

Interesting suggestion about roll-ends. Thanks I may have to check into that.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I prefer aspen, but for the opposite reasons mentioned. I find it cleaner & less funky than newspaper. I spot clean as I find messes & have less instances of "painting the walls" than I do the few times I've tried newspaper. With newspaper I'd be having to make complete changes rather than scooping up the mess plus some extra, and I found with newspaper my animals would sometimes get filthy if I missed a mess by a few hours. People that come down to the snake cave usually mention how "it doesn't stink".

Mostly it's my preference though rather than the animals as they seem to do just fine either way. I do think there might be some benefit to having a substrate they can burrow into as they see fit, and to having uneven surfaces, but any benefit is probably so slight that it't not making any real difference.

That's my main concern is that the snakes will get messed in their own waste. It's obviously not practical to be there 24/7. Guess I'll have to find out for myself.

Seems like ZooMed or one of the other companies would catch on and make a really absorbent, disposable, cost-effective, paper-towel like substrate, sort of a high-bred.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I s'pose, but I'm really happy with the shavings I use.

Ditto. I've tried newspaper, paper towels and aspen with my young P. d. jani, and aspen (or aspen on paper towel) seems to work best. Easy to spot clean, and less messy if she slithers through anything fresh . I try and give her enough to burrow through and push around, and piling it around hide boxes seems to make her less prone to spending time underneath the paper towels (better heat retention?).

As for Carefresh, I'm not a fan. Here's a photo from when I tried some (Carefresh Ultra) back in January, where you can see the fibers built up around her mouth. Might be less of a problem with something other than the Ultra, but I saw no reason to risk gunking up her respiratory system and went back to aspen.

All my snakes get two to three inch deep aspen. It is easy to see the wastes and remove them in the aspen. I do have to vacuum the cabin more often because the aspen flakes tend to go everywhere but then I also have cats, so vacuuming is a necessity no matter what. The snakes like their aspen so I put up with the little debris.

If you are getting an allergic reaction to the aspen dander maybe install an air purifier that will filter out the dust and dander in your room.

When I have a cat recovering from a wound or surgery I use shredded newspaper in the litter box. Although the newspaper is less prone to get into the wound than clay litter, it is not very practical for long term use, as the feces is not absorbed but just sits there in a wet clump and has to be removed right away.

For the larger snakes that would just as soon hang out in a bird house (LOL!) washable carpet might be a better choice. Just have some extra pieces on hand to switch out to a clean piece when they poop on it.

I do have an air purifier which works ok, but it's also noisy and uses juice so I don't want it on all the time.

No matter how quickly I spot clean the aspen, and I need to cause I'm here all the time, it still gets funky...I don't see anyway around that. I'll try the newspaper and see...maybe I'll have to give it up.

Glad there's been some strong input to this query. Most seem to favor aspen.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Do your snakes live in a room, and not in cages? And do you also live and spend time in this room? Do you mix your different species together within this room?

I also like Aspen cause it's easy to spot clean or even just cover up a mess if you are lazy at times, let it absorb and do its thing!

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- Matt

1.0 Black Milk '04
1.0 Andean Milk '06
0.1 Eastern King '97
0.1 Bullsnake '09

They all have their own enclosures but I let some of them out on occsasion and they do mix. I know there are some who'd balk but I am aware of and have considered potential issues and decided that in some cases it does not seem to be a problem and the animals certainly have a more interesting experience. I don't consider them to be absolutely idiotic drones and since I've allowed them some freedom I've learned that indeed they are not. I have not had any issues yet other than one undesired coupling. It also provides a much more interactive experience with the animals which is fun.

I've been using aspen almost exclusively and even with expedient spot cleaning, it still gets funky in time. I'm just looking for a better way. Looks like most prefer aspen over newspaper all things considered so I'll probably wind up sticking with it.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I have been using newspaper for years with great success. My snake room no longer has the " snake room " smell. Once I switched to newspaper, my rooms smells like any other room in the house. I clean avidly of course, but still, even if there are some messes to clean, the smell barely makes itself known.
Aspen, for my experience, seemed to amplify the smell of snake poop. Once I switched to strictly newspaper, it was like night vs. day.

Hope this helps!!
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Genesis 1:1

aspen looks better but it's hard to feed on it w/out the snake ingesting some. i've been back & forth a dozen times & do prefer paper, all things considered.

I don't use aspen anymore because most of my snakes would tip the water bowl just enough so that water would spill onto the bedding and cause mold to grow. I use newpaper now, it's a lot cheaper and easier to clean up after.

I've used newspaper for all my adult pits for years with good results. I think aspen works great but I find it harder to clean, more expensive and I tend to let it go longer before cleaning than I do with newspaper which is not good although thats my issue.

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Randy Whittington

"I think aspen works great but I find it harder to clean, more expensive and I tend to let it go longer before cleaning than I do with newspaper"

That's what I was trying to say
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Can't stand aspen! IMO it smells and is dusty. Makes me sneeze.

For adult pits, I like either dried corn cobs, Sani-Chip, Sani-Chip mixed with sifted pine, or paper. Much better for my nose, and snakes are fine. I notice pits seem to like hides, whereas milks and kings use hides or substrate to go under. So for pis I use hides. Anything - wood box, PVC pipe, whatever.

Below is corncob substrate and 2inch PVC hides. There is a big Sonoran gopher crammed in one of the pipes.

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Mark

I have always used newspapers the most for one reason..just throw in the food at any spot in the tub and not worry about anything loose stick to the food item. But I admit I love aspen but I don't want to use it. My snake room never ever smell unless there is a fresh poop that happens to smell once in a while and I just replace fast or sometime later in the same day.

Surprising, not one mention of cage carpet, turf, etc. Works extremely well for me as I have several custom sized pieces for each cage. When they become soiled, I removed them and hose them off outside (my yard is desert so it doesn't matter) and then hang them out to dry in the desert sun. Pretty effective deodorizer. I hit the affected area in the tank with a couple of spritz's of "Healthy Habitat" (bulk ordered from LLL Reptile) and wipe clean with paper towels, pop in a clean carpet, replace the hides, waterbowl and then the snake. Whole process takes about five minutes per tank. Those cage carpets last and last too.

Don't have access to other than a small weekly newspaper so that source is not an option for me. As for any bagged chips or other substrate, I would have to bulk order too much at a time as there is no source of them otherwise within 100 miles of where I live.

Just a thought...

Kinda funny how we seem to only be concerned with ease of cleaning but noone mentions comfort or requirements of burrowing snakes like Pinesnakes and Bullsnakes, Aspen is very easy to mantain by taking out a handfull and simply replacing the same amount, doing a full removal and cleaning every eight to ten weeks, maybe more in the summer. paper is clean and cheap and easy to aquire but every snake I kept on paper would from time to time like in shed cycle, go under the paper. ...all snakes like the option to dig.

Certainly a valid consideration.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Thanks for that about the "cage carpet" I tried that once and for some reason didn't keep it. Forget why now. So, I suppose you mean it doesn't hold any funk, e.g., cleans easily and completely? Thanks.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

That's correct! I use a pressurized hose (nozzle device), drape the carpet over a background (in my case the side of a five gallon bucket) and wash down both sides thoroughly. If the feces have dried, I may soak the carpets for awhile and then subject them to pressure wash. By this time though, the snake is re-situated on a fresh carpet while the soiled one is being cleaned and dried. After an afternoon or day in the sun, clean and no funk. Works very well for the few snakes that I have.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23217/category.web

Never have had too much burrowing inclination with the carpet. Some will occasionally crawl underneath and remain there for some time - usually when it cools down in their room below what they like and definitely towards fall when they start looking for a place to winter. The hides that I use seem to provide that escape that meets the need. Very durable and easy to clean to.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes/

Just for some ideas...