Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok im not new to egg hatching. but within the end of the last breeding season and beginning of this one i think im having issues. toward the end of last year we lost a couple clutches of eggs. one of the last clutches we cut a couple eggs. one normal and one spider. the norm didnt make it but the spider by the grace of god did. so tiny tho. we hand fed it for months. by hand feed i mean we held the tiny mouse down so it couldnt wiggle away and give the spider enough chance to get a serious grip. we never had to force feed. he now eats on his own like its going out of style. we were fine in the beginning of the year but all of the sudden as the incubator filled we lost more and more snakes. i think 4 clutches to be exact. ok so now or first clutch of the year needs to hatch. we cut the eggs on 60 days. the babies are super tiny again. maybe a little bigger than the spider and there is tons of yolk left in the egg. whats going on? we have an awesome built incubator from a friend. its by the book. wire shelves, heat cable, false wall with a fan so the air circulates. the helix is set on 88. what am i doing wrong? is there something wrong with the cable. i mean its warm in there. the temp says 88 but i just dont understand whats going on. someone please help me. should i just leave the eggs past the 60 day? i cant turn the incubator up too much more i dont want to cook the eggs. what should i do!!!!

where is your probe positioned at? just cause the incubator is at 88 does not always mean the eggs are at 88. personally i dont see the point in cutting till the first one pips. after that then cut the rest. it sounds to me as though the eggs have not had enough temp or time to hatch, im betting temps are to blame. also maybe your probe or unit isnt calibrated or functioning properly. set up a different thermometer or use your infra red gun and shoot the eggs themselves. just throwin ideas around.
adam jeffery

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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

my probe for the helix is dead center hanging there. i get what ur saying about it tho. maybe i should stick it in and empty box with vermiculite? i have two sep thermometers inside the incubator one top one bottom. both read 89 actually. i dont have a temp gun. i should get one just so i can make sure. thanks for the help

I don't have any experience with this at all, so this is purely my opinion. I'm just wondering, maybe your cutting to early and they arent getting a chance to develop fully?
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This is courage.. to bear unflinching what heaven sends. -unknown

1.0 Basset Hound (Capone)
1.1 cats (San Quinton and Gracie)

i understand why your saying this but the only thing that makes me say that isnt it is because we always cut the eggs. we've had plenty of good clutches with good surviving snakes. until the end of last year we've never had a problem. its almost like as soon as there are too many boxes in there the incubator cant keep up. the temp stays the same. right now i have 11 clutches of eggs in there. i kno its a touchy subject on cutting on this forum and i am taking it into consideration but even when we didnt cut they died. all of the them.

ps i think i am just gonna wait until at least one pips

Yeah, wait til one pips! Key "red flags":

1) "Homemade Incubator"

2) "Cutting"

3) "multiple clutches"

I bet the lower amount of clutches in the incubator, the better success rate, right? I think the "mass" (large number of clutches" is not reaching AND maintaining your optimum temps! (88.00-90.00) As stated, check w/multiple probes in varius boxes, your temps! You may have to go 65-70 days and then play w/incubator during the "off season"!

the only thing is last year when we just decide to let them go they still all died... i was thinking this as soon as posted the ps. my bf confirms they all died.

to add to my original post. what i would do at this point is go buy another incubator even a hovabator, get it set up and running temps for a few days to a week. then move some clutches over to the new bator. this will help more air move around and get to all the clutches. once all your clutches have hatched i wold start preparing for next year. get a thermometer with multiple probes and put the probes in the egg boxes at diff levels of the incubator. then adjust your thermostat(regardless of what temp it says) to where your reading 89(on the thermometer) in the tubs. make sure your tubs are setup as if their were eggs in them with a water bottle to simulate eggs or use chicken eggs!!
then for next year try and have more than one incubator setup and prepared for use just in case.
adam jeffery
i charge 1 high end ball for my advice....j/k
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Simple:
Stop cutting.
Problem solved.
You're welcome.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

yea that helps when even when we dont cut THEY STILL DIE! thanks for being an adult. i dont care what ur opinion on cutting is. they are my snakes. if cutting is wrong how come ive produce over 100 snakes without fail until this?? like i said cuttings a touchy subject but i figured u could get over that to help with my incubation problem.

just looked on ur website under misc in the photo gallery... yea i dont think balls cut straight lines like that. just saying

60 days is for 89 degrees. as your doing 88, you should go a tad longer. as to cutting, i realize you are saying whether you cut or not - if there is still lots of yolk in there, regardless of "why" (which i'm probably not really helping you with as i'm not sure i know), i'd still not cut. i'd go 65 days. i'm personally not a big fan of cutting till the first one pips and like you, i do less than 89 degrees and i've seen big robust snakes hatch at 70 days. it's their schedule, not ours. make sure your probe is on the egg (or between 2 eggs), and reading 88.

yea im def gonna put the probe in a box. this might help with the temps. im really gonna bite my hands and wait until 70 on the next clutch. just to see if they hatch. if not by 70 im gonna cut. just to see if they are actually still alive. im just so scared they are gonna die like last year. i hope not. my bf says maybe our problem is bc we dont have two fans behind the false wall. so maybe the air isnt circulating with that many tubs in there? i sure hope we figure out what the problem is b4 i lose all these eggs. thanks for the help

Is it from the same pairing?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

nope all different. so i know its an incubator problem. first clutch was spider x norm. this one was a norm x ghost.

It doesn't really matter what temp your thermostat is set to, there are lots of variables that affect that through probe placement.

The important detail is the temperature of the eggs themselves. Use a temp gun and measure egg temps, adjust your thermo up or down accordingly.

Best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

make sure youre probe is inside the egg box so you get a true reading! and since youre incubating at 88 degrees i would say there going to need a few more days around a week plus i think you said there was still alot of fluid and yolk so im thinking thats the only problem youre having there just not quite ripe so to speak lol..... myself and most breeders these days cut i dont think its a big deal at all BUT! I DO WAIT UNTIL THE FIRST PIP hope this helps partner good luck with the all the rest! regards..

First of all do not put the probe in a box. Your probe belongs in the incubator, but you need to monitor the temp of the eggs in the boxes. The incubator probe controls the incubator and you adjust that to get the correct temps in the egg boxes.

Did you change your egg boxes from one style to another. Egg boxes need to be air tight. When they aren't they leak air, which causes the water inside the egg boxes to evaporate. Evaporation is the principle behind refrigeration. If your boxes leak air the inside temps may be well below the 88 inside the incubator.

Two points:

1) My incubator has been set at 88.3 for 15 years and I've had hatchings from 57-62 days!

2) Don't want to start a hybrid/egg cut/egg box pizzing match here, but ALL my egg boxes have holes in them and I have no problem hatching babies!

Your egg boxes will be cooler than the surrounding air in the incubator if there are holes. If the egg boxes are uniform then things should work, but the temp still has to be taken inside the egg boxes. If the incubator temp is adjusted to compensate for the evaporation things will work.

I learned this when I changed from rubbermaid boxes to sterilite one year. The sterilite boxes didn't seal as well as the rubbermaid boxes. I had thermometer probes in every box and experienced a wide variation. I was hatching burmese at the time and their temps are more critical than for ball pythons since burmese can thermo regulate.

There are many ways to incubate eggs.

My point for the original poster was since you are at 88 inside the incubator which is slightly on the low side, IF your boxes are leaking air and causing evaporation, the inside temp may be even lower than the 88. Maybe 86. This can cause the eggs to take longer, maybe too long.

I'm glad you have success, since what you are doing works for you, obviously you shouldn't change. The original poster is having trouble, I gave him one other possible thing to check. That being the temp inside the egg boxes like others have said. I also gave him a possible reason why the temps might not be the same inside and outside of the egg boxes.

With all due respect you have challenged and gotten offended at every posting offering advice. You said it yourself.. your incubator cant keep up. If you were having success with the incubator before, leads to beleive it isnt working as well and something needs to be adjusted.
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This is courage.. to bear unflinching what heaven sends. -unknown

1.0 Basset Hound (Capone)
1.1 cats (San Quinton and Gracie)

ok i never got offended except for the one poster who just simply stated stop cutting. if i seemed offended to any other one, i was not. its just very frustrating to have these snakes get all the way to this point then die. and when people were offering up different suggestions yes i made comments but it was just bc i brain storming as to why they dont fit my situation. maybe it was bc i didnt include all the details to my issue. but everyone so far has offered up some good suggestions.

I have my incubator set at 88.5 and the alarm goes off at 88.2 on the low side and 88.8 on the high side. I have holes in my egg boxes also but I dont use a mixed medium in my boxes, I put 2 layers of the lighting egg crate in the bottom of the egg box and then put like a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch of water in the bottom of it. I fill it just short of touching the eggs on the bottom which I lay on top of the crating but I also use a 32 qt tub in the bottom of the incubator to keep the humidity high and I very seldom if ever have to mess with putting more water into the individual egg boxes. I do check them every few days to once a week and I might have to add water to the egg box 1 time during the whole incubation period. I also run a 4 inch fan in my incubator that runs all the time and it seems to work fine for me. Eggs always look great and start to dimple about 3 weeks from hatching time.
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JEM from sunny AZ.

3.25 Normals
3.10 Pastels
1.0 Super Pastels(Thanks Dan Wolf for the best looking Super male I have ever seen)
1.7 Normal Spiders
1.1 Spiders 100% het Ghost(thanks Mark Petros)
0.2 Spiders 66% het Ghost(Thanks Steve Beamer)
1.3 Orange/Butterscotch Ghosts(BallPython777 Mark Petros)
0.6 100% het Orange Ghosts
0.3 66% het Orange Ghosts(should prove this year)
0.1 Pastel Ghost
1.0 Citrus Ghost(courtesy of Josh Hutto)
0.1 Super Pastel 100% het Ghost
2.3 Albinos
1.1 Caramel Albinos
0.1 100% het Caramel Albino
0.4 100% het for Albino
0.5 66% het for Albino(should prove this year)
0.7 Yellow Bellies
1.0 Pastel Yellow Belly
1.2 Ivories
1.2 100% het for Clowns(Mark Petros)
1.6 Cinnamons(Thanks Stan Ruppel)
1.0 Pied
1.4 100% het for Pied(Josh Hutto)
0.5 66% het for Pied(should prove out next year with my visual male Pied)
1.5 Mojaves
0.1 Pastave het Ghost
1.1 Beautiful Black Pastels(thanks Gulf Coast Reptiles)
1.2 BumbleBees(thanks for the AWESOME Bees Marc Bailey)
1.1 Pewters(Myself and Scott Priester of Brookside Reptiles)
0.1 Chocolates(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
1.3 Lessers(Josh Hutto)
3.2 Fire's(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
2.2 High White Calico's(Thanks Brent from BRB)
1.1 SpotNoses(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
1.1 Enchi's (Me and Josh Hutto, Thanks again Josh)
1.0 Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon Blast
1.0 Vanilla Ghost(Thanks again GCR for all the great snakes)
0.1 Super Vanilla Ghost(Awesome Chris and Shelia from GCR)
0.1 Vanilla Yellow Belly
0.1 Vanilla(Another one from Josh Hutto,I must have all your snakes now...lol.) Thanks my friend, Jay
1.1 Stillwater Hypo Bull snakes(Brad Chambers)
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull
2.0 Beautiful Bengals
14 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

I haven't read all the posts so this probably has already been stated. Don't rely on just one gadget to measure your temps. If you've got the helix on 88 then your egg boxes are probably less and you'll need to either adjust your temp or cook time. Check your temps in the incubator and boxes with a temp gun as well as sticking a few thermometers inside the egg boxes and just monitor your temps in each box individually and make adjustments as needed.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
The Blog
nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

everyone that offered suggestions thanks. the next clutch isnt due to hatch until june 11th. that is the 60 day. i will wait until 70. im temp gunning the eggs and i am trying to adjust the helix accordingly. i guess we shall see how it all pans out.

the main thing to note is that after 60days you cutted the eggs.....and by you saying it still had a lot of yolk is basically saying the hatchlings are not ready to be born yet….which equals premi’s.

when a hatchling is ready to cut on it's own, it will have most all if not all the yolk absorbed already.

if....at 60days you still see a lot of yolk, this means that your incubator is not accurately showing the correct temperature. …which means it’s running low on temps.

lower temps = longer hatch times

higher temps = quicker hatch times

in your case your temps are very low, which is resulting at longer hatching times....which proves by having a lot of yolk at 60 days.

also another thing to keep in mind is that without some sort of circulating airflow your incubator will read different temps at different locations....and if you do have a fan to circulate the airflow....you need to insure that the airflow is not blocked (incubator not stuffed)...if so having the fan in the incubator blocked is irrelevant.

Not sure if you mentioned or not about having multiple thermometers in your incubator, but it’s truly a necessity to have multiple meters. This gives without a doubt a full understanding of what’s going on in your incubator, as well as a peace of mind.

You can hatch out eggs in your bedroom….as long as the temps and humidity is within range. It’s when you’re out of the range when problems arise. Just to give you an idea….this season I’m hatching my eggs between 90-90.5 degrees. Which would quicker hatching times.

Pitoon

>>ok im not new to egg hatching. but within the end of the last breeding season and beginning of this one i think im having issues. toward the end of last year we lost a couple clutches of eggs. one of the last clutches we cut a couple eggs. one normal and one spider. the norm didnt make it but the spider by the grace of god did. so tiny tho. we hand fed it for months. by hand feed i mean we held the tiny mouse down so it couldnt wiggle away and give the spider enough chance to get a serious grip. we never had to force feed. he now eats on his own like its going out of style. we were fine in the beginning of the year but all of the sudden as the incubator filled we lost more and more snakes. i think 4 clutches to be exact. ok so now or first clutch of the year needs to hatch. we cut the eggs on 60 days. the babies are super tiny again. maybe a little bigger than the spider and there is tons of yolk left in the egg. whats going on? we have an awesome built incubator from a friend. its by the book. wire shelves, heat cable, false wall with a fan so the air circulates. the helix is set on 88. what am i doing wrong? is there something wrong with the cable. i mean its warm in there. the temp says 88 but i just dont understand whats going on. someone please help me. should i just leave the eggs past the 60 day? i cant turn the incubator up too much more i dont want to cook the eggs. what should i do!!!!
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The two main clues to this problem are 1) lots of yolk present and 2) tiny babies. This screams to you that these babies needed more time. If you choose the 88 degree temp, then I think I would choose to allow them to pip eggs and tell you when they are ready. I am not saying "don't cut".... just that it is clear that you cut too early in development. You won't have that problem if you allow nature to tell you when they are ready.

Susan
SSNAKES

I agree with Adamjeffery, I would wait til the first one pips and then feel free to carefully cut the rest of them from that same clutch. If you had 2 clutches laid on the same day I wouldn't make any cuts in the second clutch until they started out on their own incase its a problem with warmer and cooler spots in your incubator. I know lots of people have their tepms and counting the days right down to a T so that is fine for them, I dont make any cuts counting days or anything until the first one starts out on their own. Then I very carefully snip the rest of the eggs from that clutch and sometimes it still takes them 2 or 3 more days to come out on their own. Be very patient.
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JEM from sunny AZ.

3.25 Normals
3.10 Pastels
1.0 Super Pastels(Thanks Dan Wolf for the best looking Super male I have ever seen)
1.7 Normal Spiders
1.1 Spiders 100% het Ghost(thanks Mark Petros)
0.2 Spiders 66% het Ghost(Thanks Steve Beamer)
1.3 Orange/Butterscotch Ghosts(BallPython777 Mark Petros)
0.6 100% het Orange Ghosts
0.3 66% het Orange Ghosts(should prove this year)
0.1 Pastel Ghost
1.0 Citrus Ghost(courtesy of Josh Hutto)
0.1 Super Pastel 100% het Ghost
2.3 Albinos
1.1 Caramel Albinos
0.1 100% het Caramel Albino
0.4 100% het for Albino
0.5 66% het for Albino(should prove this year)
0.7 Yellow Bellies
1.0 Pastel Yellow Belly
1.2 Ivories
1.2 100% het for Clowns(Mark Petros)
1.6 Cinnamons(Thanks Stan Ruppel)
1.0 Pied
1.4 100% het for Pied(Josh Hutto)
0.5 66% het for Pied(should prove out next year with my visual male Pied)
1.5 Mojaves
0.1 Pastave het Ghost
1.1 Beautiful Black Pastels(thanks Gulf Coast Reptiles)
1.2 BumbleBees(thanks for the AWESOME Bees Marc Bailey)
1.1 Pewters(Myself and Scott Priester of Brookside Reptiles)
0.1 Chocolates(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
1.3 Lessers(Josh Hutto)
3.2 Fire's(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
2.2 High White Calico's(Thanks Brent from BRB)
1.1 SpotNoses(Thanks Brandon of Priceless Pythons)
1.1 Enchi's (Me and Josh Hutto, Thanks again Josh)
1.0 Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon Blast
1.0 Vanilla Ghost(Thanks again GCR for all the great snakes)
0.1 Super Vanilla Ghost(Awesome Chris and Shelia from GCR)
0.1 Vanilla Yellow Belly
0.1 Vanilla(Another one from Josh Hutto,I must have all your snakes now...lol.) Thanks my friend, Jay
1.1 Stillwater Hypo Bull snakes(Brad Chambers)
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull
2.0 Beautiful Bengals
14 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

Don't cut until 1 of the babies pip. I lost 2 BEL last season, because I had 3 thermometers that each said a different temp. I took an average and it was too soon.
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