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Someone please enlighten me as to whether this might be breeding behavior. I have heard that this is the time of year when mating occurs.

Two "Bogertophis subocularis" have cohabited peacefully for one year. Their sexes are unconfirmed. (I know, that would help explain a lot of the behavior!)

One snake is a 3yo and the other is a big adult, almost twice as big as the 3yo.

The big one gets anxious-like when we open the cage and starts biting its cagemate. Also the big one is refusing to eat. The way it bites the smaller one is just anywhere on its body. The big one just gets up close and wriggles its mouth open and holds on or kind of chews; it doesn't strike out in an aggressive or fearful way. The little one sometimes just kinda sits there but mostly tries to get away. I have had snakes mate in the past and typically I see the female doing the tail-waggle and the male following her around. I don't remember biting.

My suspicion is that maybe we have two males.

Any advice or ideas greatly appreciated as always!!!
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Lisa Rakestraw
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My skinks:
1.1 Corucia zebrata (Berman and Joni)
2.3 Egernia striolata
2.2 Eumeces schneideri (Jack and Mabel; Kaa and Cochisa)

Hubby's snakes of the Southwest:
0.1 Lichanura orcutti (Rosie)
0.1 Lampropeltis pyromelana (Little Red)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer (Jennifer)
1.1 Bogertophis subocularis (Humphrey and Olive)
0.1 Lampropeltis alterna (Sandy)

My mandarins bite during courtship, but the female also does the tail wagging. I have yet to keep pecos so I can only say so much on the matter.
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

I'm not the most experienced here but if they are a pair and the smaller female is unreceptive the male's aggression might stress her out. Something you might want to be wary of. Let's see what others say.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Thanks, monklet! I already separated them. Tried offering the big one a mouse again yesterday (it's been almost two months since it ate) and no go. Smaller one ate it instead, from the protection of its new enclosure.

We ordered *the* big book on "subocs" so hopefully that will give us some depth of info.

Thanks again to both of you for your help!
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Lisa Rakestraw
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My skinks:
1.1 Corucia zebrata (Berman and Joni)
2.3 Egernia striolata
2.2 Eumeces schneideri (Jack and Mabel; Kaa and Cochisa)

Hubby's snakes of the Southwest:
0.1 Lichanura orcutti (Rosie)
0.1 Lampropeltis pyromelana (Little Red)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer (Jennifer)
1.1 Bogertophis subocularis (Humphrey and Olive)
0.1 Lampropeltis alterna (Sandy)

Lisa, without having them sexed it really is hard to say. I suspect the larger one is male, and not eating because it has breeding on its mind. Keep them separated until sexed. In fact, I would keep them separated regardless. As mentioned, regardless if the smaller one is a male, or a female not ready to breed, the stress from the big one could cause health problems.

Thanks, Kevin. I got the book on subocs and i guess biting is a big part of their courtship. So the big one is a male. Also, the author said that he doesn't even breed females until they are 4yo, and our unsexed little one is 3yo. So we will keep them separate and revisit the breeding possibilities next year if the little one turns out to be female.
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Lisa Rakestraw
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My skinks:
1.1 Corucia zebrata (Berman and Joni)
2.3 Egernia striolata
2.2 Eumeces schneideri (Jack and Mabel; Kaa and Cochisa)

Hubby's snakes of the Southwest:
0.1 Lichanura orcutti (Rosie)
0.1 Lampropeltis pyromelana (Little Red)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer (Jennifer)
1.1 Bogertophis subocularis (Humphrey and Olive)
0.1 Lampropeltis alterna (Sandy)

The fact that a trans-pecos is doing that type of behavior just when you open the cage would concern me as they are not nearly as bold as some other species. I would personally seperate the pair until you can find someone to probe them and seperate them for sure if it's not a pair. Weather it's a male and female or not it is strange that it occurs only when you open the cage. I would be inclined to think it is a feeding response triggered by you opening the cage and by the movement of the smaller one but since the larger one isn't feeding right now kills that thought.
Very strange?

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Randy Whittington

Man are those some nice looking animals Randy...WOW!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I normally see you over on the Kingsnake Forum. Really nice looking animals!

Bob.

>>Someone please enlighten me as to whether this might be breeding behavior.

Click on the link below. That picture is of a male courting a female. The female in the photo did try to get away from the male. Based on your descriptions, it certainly could be breeding behavior. Seeing bite marks on a random part of a female's body is one of the telltale signs that Subocs have bred (or that the male attempted to).

Males will also bite males during breeding season, so as long as you are sure of the sexes, and allow the female some time away from him for a few days inbetween pairings, then the health of both animals should be mitigated for any lasting damage.

Good luck.

Dusty Rhoads
Pre-copulatory Suboc bite