Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I'm interested in getting a pair of either Whitewall Speckleds or White Sided Brooks and was wondering what peoples opinions are about the positives and negatives of each.
Thanks,
CK

Are you asking for the positives and negatives between a brooks and a speckled king? I mean, their patterns are just patterns. The whitewall speck is definitely the more extreme for lack of side pattern.

One possible difference is that brooks are usually super duper calm kingsnakes, kind of like the boa constrictor of the kingsnakes in terms of temperament. Speckleds can vary from tame to a bit nervous, kind of like Cal kings.
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Mark

Thanks Mark. I guess I'm interested in the "white" in them. The speckleds seem to be more expensive and less available. I've had normals versions of both and I experienced the opposite in terms of attitude. My speckled was calm and boring. The brooks was aggressive. Always rattling her tail, striking and biting when allowed. I've seen both white versions in person and the speckled was more attractive in that encounter.

I think the white sided Specks are much better looking than the Brooks, and it seems they are a legit animal from wild caught specimens. The Brooks, well maybe not so much. (opens can of worms)
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I prefer WS FL Kings because mine NEVER turn down food even when in shed, They have stark white sides when fully grown, and there are 100000000 more combos that can be made with the WS gene..... For example I have WS Hypos that are completely white and look lucy, a WS Ghost that is a completely solid lavender color, etc. FL Kings RULE!

Where did the WS Brooks come from?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>Where did the WS Brooks come from?
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Oh no here we go again.
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Joe

I don't have a real problem with them if they are let's say crossed with WS Black Rat but then the statement made above really changes doesn't it? He said there are more possibilities with the WS Brooks. Well we could breed the Speckled into every snake under the sun. Then which has more possibilities?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Dont really see a poin in arguing or discussing the orgin of the WS for the millionth time as we will never know if it is a pure FL or not.... Plus who cares considering it has been outcrossed enough that it now looks, acts, and is accepted as a FLORIDA KING MORPH... dont want to sound like a jerk but seriously can we lay to rest all of the discussions on lav and ws florida kings???? No new news is coming out about them and nobody can prove that they are the results of crossing snakes so why speculate and ruin the views that outsiders have on the morph??

We will never know whats in the punch so don't tell anyone. I was new here after many years of going cold turkey. I almost bought a pair really cheap too. But then I started asking around and I got lot's of opinions. So I decided why buy an animal that may be looked at as a mutt when I can buy an animal that is prettier IMO and is more recognized to be true. You said there are more possibilities with Brooks WS. I made the point that if there are no boundaries than the sky is the limit. Obviously you have several of these and my goal is not to discredit you but I am a firm believer in the freedom of information act. I have snakes that are not pure. I have Thayeri X Ruthven, and Nelson X Sinaloans. But I will call them that always no matter how much they can pass for one or the other. The original poster was inquiring about the two and i gave him my unbiased opinion. I don't have either right now but the WS Specks are definately on my list.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

This is why I do not post on here much anymore. In this day and age as far as the hobby is concerned, EVERYTHING is questionable and people are misinformed constantly.
A snake or a morph is called out and someone who cares nothing for people who are working with these animals have to deal with idiotic rants spewed forth in an attempt for them to appear "in the know".
Even when something is produced from WILD CAUGHT snakes it is STILL attacked...I know this first hand. There's no point... if its a morph enjoy it for what it is and leave it at that. They're cool looking animals.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

np

Is it safe to say you have and sell these? To me it makes a big difference if it came from a completely different animl cause it is no longer a Morph. I think they call that a Hybrid. Like I said I have no problem with hybrids but I think people want to know what they are buying. I do.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

So you want me to just shut up, huh? My wife has been trying to do that for years. I speak my mind and i try to be honest. If it hit a nerve, thats not my fault. I may not agree with someone but I don't try to silence them. Bye bye now!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

He's a grown man and can take care of himself.

I think he would certainly agree you have a right to your opinion and ask questions but Tom is a long time Forum guy and breeds quite a bit and there have been TONS of these ugly, often testy threads and it does get tiresome.

[color-blue]"There's no point... if its a morph enjoy it for what it is and leave it at that. They're cool looking animals.
Tom Stevens" [color]

I'm not a morph guy myself but you have to respect other folks have a right to do/enjoy what they want. Don't take it personal he's an ok guy, you're just new to the Forum and this has been a source of contention and stress for many over the years, both sides. Some of these folks have well over 30 years invested in the hobby and it's frustrating to deal with relative new comers who aren't aware of prior history and background info.

I understand where He's coming from and I can see that it can be tiresome problem. But we have new people here all the time and the subject is going to keep coming up. I believe in honesty and if everyone were honest then we probably would not be in the situation that we find ourselves in. Like I said I have morphs and have hybrids or intergrades(man made). The market dictates what will sell not me. WS Brooks are super cheap. There must be a reason? I decided to do some research before I bought them. I like them but I don't want something that I will have to defend everytime the subject comes up. Also by him reacting like he did gives more creedance to the thought that they are undesirable.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

" I like them but I don't want something that I will have to defend everytime the subject comes up."

"if its a morph enjoy it for what it is and leave it at that".

I think your taking it personal. Been there.

"WS Brooks are super cheap. There must be a reason? I "

Bluerosy said it best."I have owned numerous of both.

The Floridas are calm and eat well and grow fast. get a WS that is a visual of another trait like hypo ws , axanthic, ws, ghost ws etc. Or you can breed a another morph of Florida and create your own new morph.
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www.Bluerosy.com "

WS brooks aren't a new morph, they breed easy and have decent sized clutches. That's a recipe for lower prices. And it isn't like the specks are that much more expensive either...neither of them breaks 150 for a baby...
The one that puzzles me is the mosiac; those are new and dirt cheap. and really interesting, I plan to get some later...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I will say this for the 1 millionth time.

So what... if all 20 of the people who answer questions on this forum say something is or isnt a hybrid....well that's that?
No... of course not.
All this nit picking isnt worth a second of anyones time, it boils down to who you are going to believe,

This forum represents the tiniest fraction of keepers and breeders. It means nothing, this is all for fun.
From time to time respected breeders come on here and tell us the origins of snakes... what makes them above the average person on here is they come on here and say it ONCE and thats it... that is what they say and ends there. Regardless of WHO that person tends to be there will always be someone to say they don't believe it.

Threads like this do more harm than good. It's a waste of everyones time.

Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

Well new people want to know just like I did. That's all I don't know the truth I merely brought up what I have heard. But I see your frustration and I want to avoid that. Now if it was the blaze phase goins and someone said something I would be like who cares those things are frickin nice! But WS Brooks don't get me that excited anyway. Warning to all new guys. Don't bring up this subject again! I hope they all read that?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

You sold me a MBK a few years ago and he turned out to be a great breeder. Just wanted to say thanks. I'm hoping to produce anerythristic MBK's. I'll be RICH! LOL. Just kidding, I wanted to thank you for the best snake I ever bought. Steve

>>>I will say this for the 1 millionth time.

So what... if all 20 of the people who answer questions on this forum say something is or isnt a hybrid....well that's that? >>>

now thats funny and OH SO true!,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Yes. good point. Except for learning from others experiences here and enjoying talking herps ( good stuff ) It's a small group of folks that post and a small group that casually check in. It's not like the herp world congress or something Ha.

Going to Daytona this year Thomas?

howdy bob, i hope to make it daytona way this year i cant say for sure yet, are you goin?
i am excited that NARBC is coming to houston this year and i will for sure be there in oct. looking for forum posters theres a few i would really REALLY like to meet
,,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

not sure, But it was nice to meet you,Discern, Dave Boyle and some of the other guys.

I don't see any WhiteWall Speckleds in the classifieds. Is it OK to ask you all if you know of any for sale?

Prices have dropped on them tremendosly. They were just $700. 3 years ago and this year you will probably see them go for $100. ea. It is to bad really but when a certain breeder go a hold of some founder stock he decided to drop prices and that blew the interest on these fine snakes.

Wiat until egg season and plenty will be avaliable on the clssifieds. Otherwise you will have to get lucky with someone posting a yearling or older specimen for sale. If i was you i would spend the extra cash and get a yearling or older as the babies are to small.
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www.Bluerosy.com

How low are the White sided Brooks? I almost bought a Pait for $80 bucks.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

n/p
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I have owned numerous of both.

the Whitewall specks are cleaner but their disposition is completly spastic and are worse than hondurans. I don't know if it is a line bred trait but mine don't hold still and when i open their drawers they come flying out and plopping on the floor.

They are also hard to get started as neonates because they hatch out so tiny that even a small pink is to big a meal and most don't take to feeding right away (scented). They also take a long time to raise up to adulthood.

The Floridas are calm and eat well and grow fast. get a WS that is a visual of another trait like hypo ws , axanthic, ws, ghost ws etc. Or you can breed a another morph of Florida and create your own new morph.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I'm starting to get the impression that based upon availability, temperment, size and feeding issues that the Brooks might be the way to go if I wanted to try a pair. I just like the looks of both varieties and would rather choose the one that will be more hardier and handleable so I can show them off. I saw a few in the classifieds, but if anyone wants to email me with their availability (WS Brooks, no hets) I'm all ears.

Yeah plain WS brooks are very cheap and a good buy. i would get a pair of those and get a Whitewall speck later in the year.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>Yeah plain WS brooks are very cheap and a good buy. i would get a pair of those and get a Whitewall speck later in the year.
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>>www.Bluerosy.com

Would you be saying that if you had 32 different Holbrooki morphs......J/K bro......LOL

There are tons of possibilities with Specs still......There are no double homozygots yet.....This year we should see an amel whitewall........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Would you be saying that if you had 32 different Holbrooki morphs......J/K bro......LOL

yes actually i would. The Whitewall specks are very stressfed spastic snakes and i have them. I got out of Hondos because of their disposition. FLOIDA KINGS RULE! LOL!

I think I have been pretty non biased with helping the OP. I have nothing to gain from selling a $40. Florida king. most of mine are visual double and triple homos and are priced accordingly. i doubt the original poster is wanting to plop down a couple grand on a pair of his first Florida kings or any snake.

Most of my business is from people that are already in-the-know. Plus more expensive colubrid morphs is something most people just don't start out with. They learn and eventually graduate as their interests progress. Just like any hobby, whether it's cars, knives, guns (LOL!) etc.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>yes actually i would. The Whitewall specks are very stressfed spastic snakes and i have them. I got out of Hondos because of their disposition. FLOIDA KINGS RULE! LOL!

I agree with you except for the above statement.......
Have you been able to breed 18 month old Whitewalls or WW hets?
I just had a 2008 hatch lay a good clutch and is ovulating and breeding again.......Very calm snake.....Much like a Splendida.....

But....The whitewall male and the lavender female I have are the jump out of the box spastic type......LOL

Nothing beats a beautiful Mexicana clutch......Very docile and variable without any morphs.....

So I beg to differ with you.....MEXICANA RULE!......LOL!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Nothing beats a beautiful Mexicana clutch......Very docile and variable without any morphs.....

They all look like rusty nails and are small. To bad there aren't any morphs to spif them up. Maybe you should cross them into a Florida king morph. HA HA HA!
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>Nothing beats a beautiful Mexicana clutch......Very docile and variable without any morphs.....
>>
>>
>>They all look like rusty nails and are small. To bad there aren't any morphs to spif them up. Maybe you should cross them into a Florida king morph. HA HA HA!
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>>www.Bluerosy.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

the Whitewall specks are cleaner but their disposition is completly spastic and are worse than hondurans. I don't know if it is a line bred trait but mine don't hold still and when i open their drawers they come flying out and plopping on the floor.

I've noticed it with mine (all three of them...) and don't know what to make of it. I mean, flight from danger I understand, but they are coming *towards* me not away from me, into a hide spot, etc. It's the oddest thing. I have a retic that does it too (and what a joy he is to work with), but with him it's more understandable; he's 10-11' or so by now, and acting aggressive makes more sense since he might scare something off. These little guys though...charge, poop, musk, thrash...aye aye aye. The first few times I thought it was a feeding response (and if they smell food, it can become one, witness my post up a few) but that's not usually it...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

When Kings do that often enough, you start thinking....

Wouldn't some calm and gentle Transpecos Rat snakes look good in this cage....

The normals are beautiful and then theres' the silver... the Blondes.....

LOL

I love subocs. That is why i think the F L O R I D A Kings are the best combo of super calm, great feeders and tough as nails captives. tee hee!
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www.Bluerosy.com