Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In light of the Global Exotics raid / animal seizure, as well as the recent Terry Cullen raid / animal seizure, among many others of less notoriety, it might be useful to have a discussion regarding how to prevent and prepare one's self for a raid. I'll start this off by suggesting:

Preparedness:

1. photograph all your animals and their environments

2. keep detailed ongoing animal records including: purchase price, purchase condition, feeding, cleaning, growth, reproduction, vet visits, etc.

3. request and keep copies of CITES paperwork (all Boas and Pythons are CITES) for all your CITES animals

4. maintain live feeder animals under humane conditions

5. when necessary, humanely euthanize sick or feeder animals

6. know and abide by your local, state and federal regulations

7. get to know your local vet and your local animal control officials

8. frequently allow close friends to see your animal collection and ask them to keep the details of your collection confidential

Prevention:

1. avoid letting strangers see or know the exact location and / or details of your animal collection

2. ask for and thoroughly check all volunteer and prospective employee references

I prefer G. Gordon Liddy's advice of "shoot for the head" myself.

I believe that wouldn't happen here as I would have to be killed for them to achieve their goal. The term "over my dead body" is a very real concept here. Proceed at your own risk as there would be many other bodies as well...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Wow. What a mindset.

Wouldn't it be more productive to have a checklist outlining "How to Avoid Having Your Animals Seized"?

I prefer the walk softly and carry a big stick approach. A famous U.S. President said that but I doubt you know who he was.....My animals are ALWAYS IMMACULATE in oversize roomy enclosures so that I could never be criticized by anyone only persecuted and woe unto he that comes here to do that.....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

My preferred quote of his is "Petticaris alive or Rasouli dead", actually. He was a very Progressive President: he'd be considered a commie in today's political environment.

"Wow. What a mindset.

Wouldn't it be more productive to have a checklist outlining "How to Avoid Having Your Animals Seized"?"

It was discussed in "Prevention" -

"Prevention:

1. avoid letting strangers see or know the exact location and / or details of your animal collection

2. ask for and thoroughly check all volunteer and prospective employee references"

The problem is, with the frenzy of anti herp sentiment going around, along with the new laws that pop up making people who were legal one day, in violation the next, its a real concern.

I think scarier to me is the mindset thinking that this sort of thing is not a real and present fear, no matter how diligently you care for and tend your herps.

Nothing there about educating people, keeping clean environments, complying with local laws, or generally be good citizens.

Just AR black helicopter paranoia.

"Nothing there about educating people, keeping clean environments, complying with local laws, or generally be good citizens.

Just AR black helicopter paranoia."

Stephanie, this is intended to be an open discussion as indicated by "I'll start this off by suggesting:". Perhaps this was not clear enough... so please make whatever points you like.

However, speaking to your point above, please re-read:

"2. keep detailed ongoing animal records including: purchase price, purchase condition, feeding, cleaning, growth, reproduction, vet visits, etc.", where I referenced cleaning records. Perhaps you would like to reword this point so it more directly says "keep clean environments"?

and

"6. know and abide by your local, state and federal regulations" I think this is quite clear. So, perhaps you missed this point when you complained, "complying with local laws" was not mentioned?

As for 'Just AR black helicopter paranoia.' you lost me there. Can you be more specific?

For those keepers who keep boas and pythons as pets and don't sell anything, IMO the best medicine is to not volunteer information.

Case in point...

Years ago when I rented an apartment I had a few fairly large boas and pythons, and an adult Arg tegu. I didn't advertise the fact.

Then I learned that neighbors down the street had gotten a baby boa at a nearby Petco. They were in the habit of sitting on their outside steps handling the little guy.

Within a short time a couple of hysterical neighbors complained about the "Snake in the complex."

Throughout it all, I did not choose to bring my much larger animals outside to be seen by everyone and their aunt. No one knew I had big snakes, so no one complained. The landlord was fine with my stuff.

Today, I have a house on a street where there are little kids. There would be no advantage for me to take my animals outdoors where they "could eat the children."

IMO, those that walk around in public with snakes wrapped around their necks are among our worst enemies.

The general public is uneducated and irrational when it comes to snakes. That's why I don't shove my animals in their faces or even mention them.

Piece of cake.

B.

Some very good advice.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I'm fortunate that the County Executive is a close neighbor, and has seen my animals and likes them.

Jaykis - You know that would not be a bad idea to get more of the people in charge to come see the animals and let them get to know how well some people keep them. That is at least if you are keeping them good anyway it is a good idea. It could help to make them more knowledgeable of the hobby and help remove some of the bad stereo types the AR and news is putting on us.
This is also provided you can get them to even come out to see for themselves. I tried here in TX and no one responded at all.
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~