Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm usually in the chameleons forum but I keep having tort questions.... I've got these 3 little tortioses, 2 captive bred and born desert torts only a few months old and a baby sulcatta. But my question is, would anything happen to the desert torts if I kept them indoors in all the right conditions so they didn't hibernate? I'm assuming they'd grow more in that time than if they were hibernating right? The people I got them from kept all their babies (alot of them maybe 40) in a BIG tank in the house and they've done it for years now. They probably haven't read a word about tortiose keeping, but they said to hibernate them just leave them in a quiet room and cover them with paper so they're not disturbed and leave them at room temp. They also said that if you touch them during this indoor hibernation time they would die because it would startle them. That doesn't sound right to me. Apparently they've done it alot though. Don't they have to have their temperature dropped to hibernate? Wouldn't they just starve to death at room temp for 5 months with no food? They keep telling me it works.... My understanding was they needed the temp dropped. Am I right? Thanks in advance.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

in box turtles with artificial hibernation it's best to check them once in a while.. meaning taking them out of whatever they're in weighing them, soaking them in luke warm/cool water checking overall health then putting them back where they were hibernating in, I highly doubt if you touch them they will die..
if the hatchling were to die it would be from food rotting in it's gut because it's metabolism would slow way down
I dont know about torts but with box turtles hibernation is canceled for the first winter of their life, or right up until they are sexually mature,
yes the temp has to drop in order for them to hibernate, if they are kept at room temp over winter(depending on where you live..) they will go into a hibernation like state.
I dont know weather or not desert tortoises hibernate but sulcates deffinatly dont, I hope you did alot of researhing on sulcatas.. and the deserts

Yeah desert torts dfinately hibernate it's too cold here in the winter for them not to (just barely freezes on winter nights). But I know Sulcattas don't and they're not my concern. I just don't understand how something (any animal) would hibernate at room temperature in it's first winter if the temperature wasn't dropping. Doesn't make sense to me. Also so what's the deal would I not have to hibernate the desert torts then? Would it grow faster if not hibernated than if it was? Same questions as my first post.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

Simply, The temperature has a direct effect on the food intake and digestion of a tortoise, if hibernated the growth will obviously slow for that length of time.

Accelerated growth through not hibernating and the natural well being rhythm of cycling has been a topic of discussion for many years.
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Richard Butler
United Kingdom

hi dear friend, please write me and ask all that you want to know about hibernation tortoises.

kind regards

I think I'll take this opportunity to ask about this practice.
I don't know about the rest of you but I 'waste' my time on these lists and boards to pick up new ideas and learn. I'm thinking that some folks do this to avoid an argument or have someone disagree with them. Well, that is when you get the greatest amount of info. That is where you get the advantages and disadvantages from every point of view. THAT is useful information.
Topics that are usually taken off list... Ethical topics, Pyramiding, Hibernation, MBD, Protein...
Why is this?
Just a thought.
Ed

Quote "Just a thought"

There you go thinking again, you have to stop doing that. Causes too much controversy.

Just kidding, I couldn't resist. I totally agree with you. I spend lots of time on here reading and learning, but not too much posting. I have so much to learn and do so from all the discussion and different opinions. I thank all of you for that. I am learning to be a better tort mom.

Shawnon

I agree with you, too. I don't like nasty arguments as you often see on other forums, but as a new tort keeper, the more I read, the better. Sure, some things are controversial, but I figure I'm intelligent enough (lol) to sort it all out. I don't have to follow anyone's advice, and I don't have to agree with anyone's opinion, but I do like to hear everything people have to say. There's no such thing as too much information...unless it has to do with the California recall (ick).
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Jeannie

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
1.0 Leopard Gecko (George)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids w/ 0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex), 0.1 Leopard Gecko (Geico), 1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
1.0 Husband (no pets, lol)

No problem at all keeping them going all year if you have the time.
Ed

You should hibernate the baby desert tortoises. It is a myth that you cannot hibernate hatchlings or first-year tortoises. I have done it many times. It is best, however, if you limit their hibernation to around 2 or 3 months. All tortoises that come from temperate zones should be allowed to hibernate. They have been doing it for millions of years and it is unnatural to keep them warm during the winter. They won't die without hibernation, but their health will slowly deteriorate over the years.

The best, and in my opinion, only way to hibernate tortoises if you live in an area that stays too warm is to use a refrigerator. After they begin to slow down on their own when the weather cools off, put them in a box with newspaper and put them in the fridge. You must make certain that the fridge stays between 35 degrees or so and 45 degrees. Don't let them freeze or get up to 50 degrees farenheit. Also make sure their gut is empty of food by not feeding them for a couple of weeks prior to hibernation. After they have been in hiberantion for 10 or 12 weeks, take them out and warm them up with a heat lamp in whatever indoor enclosure you had them in before and they will be fine after a short time waking up. Make sure they are warm enough. Feed them and soak them in shallow water right away so they can expel the toxins they accumulated in their deep sleep.

excuse me while I just collect my jaw and associated teeth off the floor...
Sure they've been doing it for millions of years... I suspect... not really.
The point is that we (yes, us, as a collective) don't have a clue as to what the conditions are that are required for proper hibernation. This extends to adults. When we talk about hatchlings we know even less.
Hey, its easy to say 'suuuuuurrre hibernate the little beast' (it's not my pet). Where as there are countless numbers of folks that keep their animals with no harm what so ever.
Bottom line... don't do it unless you would like to take the chance to show that it can or can't be done.
Ed

If YOU do not know anything about tortoise hibernation, that is fine. You should just say that you don't know anything about it. I, however, know a lot about it. You say that little is known about the conditions for hibernation? This simply is not true. MUCH is known about it. You simply need to duplicate as much as humanly possible, the conditions the tortoise would find in it's wild state. The same holds true for adults and babies as well. Do you actually think that baby tortoises somehow magically avoid hibernation in the wild? If you do, would you please explain exactly how they do it? Please be precise and specific. If you can't do that, then at least let others who know what they are talking about educate others who ask questions.

Ok, Give me one reference that illustrates the conditions in which a hibernating hatchling CDT has been found. This is actually easy considering that the CDT is probably the most studied Chelonian in the nation if not the world.
If you can't provide this reference you can maybe describe how you have hibernated your hatchlings or maybe even provide the detailed description from someone you know who has.
(don't forget to provide the results.)
Now, If you would like to take the risk of hibernating your animal for no good reason other than to take a vacation from your pets... feel free. There is absolutely no physiological benefit to hibernation. Why take that risk?
Ed

It is a well known fact that hatchling tortoises of ALL species that hibernate will go into hibernation just like the adults. They sometimes will go in later than the adults, but they do go in. What else could they do? Vacation in Florida until the weather gets warmer back home? Do they fly? Take a bus? What? As I said, I have personally hibernated hatchlings as young as two months old on several different occasions with no problems at all. In the wild, just like in captivity, hatchlings often emerge from their eggs in July, August or even as late as September sometimes, depending on how the weather has been. Even the last hathlings to emerge from the egg will hibernate when the weather begins to get too cold and the days too short. I already said how I hibernated the babies in the previous post to the guy who asked about hibernation. Didn't you read it? If you live in a cold climate, you should hibernate them in a room or garage or storage area that STAYS between 35 and 45 degrees at all times. You would put them in a box for protection of course. If, like me, you live in a warm zone where the winters don't get cold enough for them to hiberante properly, you need to put them in a refrigerator that you have tested with a thermometer and know for a fact that it stays at the proper temp at all times. YOu are wrong about preventing hibernation not having an effect on tortoises. Many torts will not lay eggs if they do not get a chance to hibernate. I have observed this myself with my Greeks and my Russians. (I have 26 tortoises alltogether) If there is no damage being done, howcome the females can't lay eggs if you don't let them hibernate? This is not just my opinion, look it up on the internet. Just about everyone now says you really should let them hibernate or you can have long-term problems. When in doubt...think about how nature made them.