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1st Clutch Ever! Experience so far + Q's

FL_Herps May 31, 2010 06:38 PM

Hey guys,

It's been a long time since I've posted anything (I think a couple years!), but I think this is worth posting just beacause it is my first time breeding any of my own snakes and it happends to be Pituophis.

My '07 Female Stillwater Hypo was bred this year by my '07 Male 100% Het Stillwater Hypo Bull Snake beginning on 3/21/09 after a 3 month brumation from 12/19/09 to 3/14/10. I observed constant breeding attempts by the male immediately after introducing them, but never saw a lockup (obviously not incredibly unusual). On 5/15/10 she shed for the 1st time since cooling and then refused food the follwing week (5/22/10).
Then, very early on 5/29/10 (13 days after shedding and just a week past 2 months since I put the pair together for the first time) she began laying eggs.
She ended up passing what appear to 7 fertile eggs, 6 slugs, and 1 iffy looking one. About 3 hours after laying her last egg (over 12 hours since she started laying) she still had what looked like one more eggs left inside her which she had given up trying to lay. With the recommendation of a very experienced breeder, I proceeded to push the egg out for her, which turned out to be another slug.

The next day (5/30/10) I noticed another bulge at her cloaca, which I also pushed out for her as she still seemed to exhausted to push it out herself...another slug.
Then today (5/31/10) I found a tiny slug (much smaller than even the other slugs) in her bin.

I'm hoping now, with a total of 7 good, 9 slugs, and 1 maybe, she is actually done, but with the slug surprise today...I can't be sure.

I would like to hear from any of the more experienced breeders if they have any thoughts on this experience. Not only is this my first time breeding any of my own snakes, let alone Pits, but it is also both of the parents of the clutch first time breeding.

Does any of this sound unusual or worth being concerened over?

I'm guessing the long egg stuggle and somewhat low fertility is due to both of the parents being 1st-timers and/or maybe some bad luck. By the way, the female had excellent size and weight (about 5.5 ft. and a little on the heavy side) both prior to cooling and breeding.

I was planning on offering her a small meal today, but after finding the slug I decided to wait. Should I continue to wait a day or two more to see if there are even more slugs or would it be safe to feed her tomorrow?

Also, if there is anything at all you would like offer for advice/suggestions, I would GREATLY appreciate any comments.

Lastly, if anyone with experience has recommendations for the best Bull Snake egg incubation using vermiculate (temps, humidity, etc.) as well as average hatch time at particular temps...that would be VERY helpful!

Ok, well if you have actually bothered to make it this far through this very long post...the least I can do is let you see some pictures.

FYI: The reason why she is laying in the corner of the bin as opposed to a moist lay box was because although she definitely looked gravid after her shed...I was told by experienced Pit breeders that she would most likely not lay for about another month and go through another shed. She definitely surprised me as well as some of my far more experienced friends...it's a good thing I caught her in the act...


Image
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Take care,

Alex Pepper

CBB '07 1.1 Aspidites ramsayi--Woma Pythons (Don Hamper/Rare Earth Stock)
CBB '08 1.1 Bothrochilus boa--Bismarck Ringed Pythons (Tom Keogan Line High Contrast)
CBB '07 1.0 Heterodon simus--High Red Southern Hognose Snake (Tom Pinson Line Red)
CBB '07 1.1 Pituophis catenifer sayi--Marathon, Texas Out-crossed Stillwater Hypomelanistic Bull Snakes
CBB '08 1.1 Pituophis melanoleucus lodingi--Black Pine Snakes (John Ginter Stock)
CBB '06 & '08 1.1 Eublepharis macularius--Blazing Blizzard & Reverse Stripe Tangerine Albino Leopard Geckos "Blaze" & "Angie"
CBB '02 0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus--Stiped African Fat-tailed Gecko "Smeagol"
CBB '03 0.1 Canis domesticus--Cocker Spaniel "Cupcake"
CBB '99 0.1 Canis domesticus--Yellow Labrador Retriever "Freckles"

Happy Herping!

Replies (3)

markg Jun 01, 2010 02:56 PM

The egg struggle/slugs is not due to 1st timers or bad luck - it is due to environmental conditions.

I am not saying I know more than you regarding pituophis breeding (I probably don't) or can provide better conditions than you can, but a healthy young female does not typically have trouble passing eggs unless something is missing, possibly certain nutrients, or perhaps a suitable nest site, or she may even be somewhat dehydrated. Luck doesn't play a role here, nor her age. We had a wild-caught, already gravid small female San Diego gophersnake lay a perfect clutch, so size in nature is not a limiting factor as far as passing eggs.

The male's sperm may not have been as motile as possible. One possibility is that too much of the cage was too warm for too long. Well, that is true for kingsnakes anyway, not sure about pits. But it is something to look at anyway.

Seems like she is going to be fine though. Those Stills sure are beautiful snakes.
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Mark

mrkent Jun 03, 2010 09:27 PM

I would also like suggestions/input. My hypo stripe cornsnake laid 17 eggs over the course of 8 days. All appear to be good. She retained 4 eggs (very visible as she is pretty under-weight now). After 4 days, today I see that one of the remaining eggs has moved down to her cloaca. I have not heard anyone suggest pushing it out of her, and am afraid that would hurt her.

In addition, she had a prolapse of her oviduct twice during that first week, requiring two trips to the vet.

She passed the last few of the 17 without prolapsing, so I am hopeful she won't prolapse again, but I don't want to cause it.

She ate two small meals earlier this week before going into her post-lay shed.

Suggestions?
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase

mrkent Jun 20, 2010 09:48 PM

She finally passed 3 more eggs, with one remaining. When several days went by, I considered aspirating it, but instead decided to try pushing it out. A little gentle, steady pressure, and it popped right out! She seemed to feel alot better, and immediately ate an adult mouse. All is well.
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

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